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Post by heavy85 on May 13, 2012 20:08:45 GMT -5
Im planning for the June Dragon event but will be a long hauler and first timer so have several questions.
Background - I live in central Illinois about 10-11 hr drive to the site. Have run time trials (not with SCCA), track days, autox, karts for years but have always had hillclimb on the bucket list. Was planning for Crow last year but life got in the way so Im doing my best to make it in 2012. Ok so the car is 240Z with V8 and 140 street tires (run a street tire class locally). It has a rollbar is licensed and insured and according to correspondence last year I think would fall into the supplemental SU class (not the autox one). Ive read the rulebook and think I only have to make a couple mods to compete but want to make sure Im not missing something before the long journey. Im also NOT an SCCA member but have a current NASA TT license.
Q1: the new hillclimb novice program says to complete novice license application step 1 but you have to be an SCCA member. Is this something I can do on site during registration with a weekend membership?
Q2: medical form - it says for novice license just fill out the assessment form, later it says you need to complete the entire form. So do I need to have an exam or not to run?
Q3: since it will be such a haul (at least by my standards) and car counts are expected to double from the past, what's expected as far as # of runs up the hill per day?
Q4: logbook. I dont have one. Can this be gotten during tech at the event and if so are there any things in particular I need to be prepared for?
There will be more but those should get me started. Im really looking forward to this event if all the stars can get aligned.
Thanks ahead of time for responses.
Cameron
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Post by czrider on May 14, 2012 8:00:02 GMT -5
 You will get numerous replies after mine but to fill the response time void, I will answer some of your questions. Your NASA TT license will get you entered. You will need an SCCA weekend membership. This will also get you the full SCCA insurance coverage. Log books will be available at Tech. If you have not done so already, look on the SCCA website and review the Time Trial rules and especially the level four section pertaining to car preparation. The lodging possibilities in the area are numerous but take some effort to nail down. work on that as early as possible. Hope to see you there! Brian Gause
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Post by nutdriverrighty on May 14, 2012 13:59:14 GMT -5
I hope it's not sold out yet, but Microtel in Robbinsville is a good place to stay. You can leave your trailer at the site. Their lot is tiny, so don't plan on having it there. We paddock along the side of the road leading up to the start line and, as undesirable as this seems to the surface, I really came to like it.
Scott Franklin
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Post by heavy85 on May 15, 2012 21:27:54 GMT -5
Slow forum but thanks so far. From last year results looks like max of 12 runs so about 6 per day. That would be about perfect but with car counts expected much higher what should I expect for realistic # of runs?
New question - The link I have is dead so does anyone have a good link to the SU (street unlimited) supplemental class rules so I can make sure Im legal? I remember I needed wipers which I just ordered but dont remember what else.
One more for now - can we have support bike? Usually use small motorcycle (100 cc enduro) at tracks but would it have to be licensed to ride around the event on?
Cameron
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Post by farrout on May 16, 2012 6:58:00 GMT -5
Street Unlimited (SU):
NOTE: This class was formerly called Street Modified in SEDIV TT. To avoid confusion with the Solo class of the same name, the class name changed to Street Unlimited in 2010.
Vehicles in this class should be titled and registered for use on public roads or have the ability to do so. It is intended as a class for street type cars whose modifications prevent them from finding a place in one of the historically available street type classes. Vehicles with an existing SEDIV SM Solo1/TT level 3 or 4 logbook are grandfathered into SU per the owner’s decision to change to this class and an inspection to a licensed Time Trial inspector. Vehicles in this class must have working brake lights and windshield wipers. With the exception of kit cars entering the class prior to 1/1/1999, a safety glass windshield is required. All lights required for street registration must be present and functional. Safety equipment should match performance potential. At a minimum, safety equipment must meet the requirements in the current SCCA Time Trial Rules for solo Street Modified cars.
Tires – Vehicles in this class must use a DOT rated tire.
Interior – Dashboard must remain intact. Kit type cars must have a dashboard. Carpet, insulation, passenger seating, etc. may be removed. No sharp edges should remain within driver's reach. Doors may be gutted only if cage is installed and side bars protrude into this area. Additional bulkheads or modifications to bulkheads to seal passenger compartment are allowed. Unsealed holes in the floorboard or firewall are not allowed.
Mufflers – Mufflers may be modified, substituted or removed for events. This does not supersede event noise requirements.
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Post by tedebayer on May 16, 2012 7:35:48 GMT -5
Hey Cameron... sorry so slow. We have been working on supps and sanctions to get registration open and making trips to Robbinsville to work with Tourism/Forestry/Local Government. We also confirmed the second hillclimb to be held there this year for September 29 & 30. Thanks to Scott, Craig and Brian for help here! A few of your questions not already addressed. Support bike is okay in paddock area only... no runs down through parking areas... no runs up the hill. Speed is a major concern as paddock is on the sides of the road and spectators (read that children) are walking through, talking to drivers and looking at cars. Safety of spectators, course workers and drivers is high importance so we can keep this site and enjoy it for the future. Forest Services will be present and if they don't like motorbike, ATV or see something they don't like... THEIR word is final. I know you understand... we have to keep them happy. I understand we will have logbooks on site but ...if at all possible, get your car log booked / annual teched in advance. It is time consuming and if there are safety issues found at that point, it is possible that you would not be allowed to run. That is very rare but again... safety has to come first. As far as number of runs... last year, we had several who had 14 runs. Sunday afternoon, some people pack up and head home due to being out of gas/tires/energy...or long trip home. At that point, you make a run and line up again. Without knowing how many cars we will have or flow (cars stopped on course for mechanical problems, etc.) it's really impossible to say. I think 5 runs a day with a large field is a reasonable figure for most well attended hillclimbs. Bear in mind most of the hillclimbs in US are around a mile. This one is right at 2.3 miles. THAT is a lot of bang for the buck and you will not learn the road in one weekend. That means reactive driving and that will get your adrenalin flowing... ; ) I promise. If I can help further, please email me at editor @ thesoutherndriver dot com ... glad to have you with us! You will have fun! There is NOTHING like a hillclimb. Here's some video footage of us from last year... special thanks to all the workers who made it possible! Look forward to seeing you again at the DRAGON! |
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Post by heavy85 on May 17, 2012 23:46:46 GMT -5
Thanks all. Registered and excited. Is there any general car setups for this hillclimb - google is failing me? My car is setup for reasonable smooth and higher speed road courses so should I soften it up or  to better handle the hill? Im thinking just leave it alone since I know it well but also am not used to potholes and such mid corner. For reference my car is a 240Z but is relatively fast ~2675 lb race weight with 364 whp and functional aero and I have enough experience to use it to its limit .... at least on a racetrack. I expect to back way off the first several runs .... or days .... or years .... and slowly build speed but am curious if there are rules of thumb car setup wise to start on the right track. Cameron |
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Post by tedebayer on May 18, 2012 6:13:42 GMT -5
Cameron - there is no set rules of thumb. You adjust your car AND your driving to surface and conditions... best fine tuner is in your helmet. We run in rain and dry but seldom have standing water due to hill. (Wet leaves can be slicker than oil... ask me how I know.) Your car sounds awesome... and taking it easy first day and learning the course is most important. We say "Saturday is for setting up car and driver learning the course... Sunday is for setting records." You REALLY need to work up to your fastest time and it will come more from learning the course so you are connecting turns.. and not "reacting to what you see next." With a 2.4 mile course... that will take some time. Jerry Kieft, a past Chimney Rock Champion told me it took 8 years before he actually learned Chimney Rock and it was a far shorter course than the Dragon. (The rest of that story is Jerry broke his first four years at the Dragon in the Bandit, his homebuilt Special he built at his shop in Ohio. Each of those 4 years, he broke on his first run of the first day. On the fifth try at Chimney Rock, he made it past the 5th turn and said "I almost pulled over because I had no idea where the course went...I had never been that far before." LOL ) The surface has been greatly improved with road work and new asphalt provided by NC DOT ( WE LOVE THOSE GUYS!) You won't find pot holes ... you will find changes in surface. The straights are coarse while many of the turns are new asphalt... stretches of 20-30 yards in some spots. I'd recommend leaving your suspension where it is, run some zip ties around your shock rods on all 4 corners... make a run and check where they slid up to. Adjust accordingly and focus on learning the course. Your BIGGEST improvements in times will not come from suspension... they will come from learning the course. Not knowing what is around the corner can be terrifying for someone who has only run on a track! ;D Watch some videos and do some homework... it will pay off. If you can find a video of a similar machine, that might help. Hit youtube and punch in "Chasing the Dragon Hillclimb" ... you'll get a nice selection. Sounds like you have a nice machine and we look forward to seeing it and you at the Dragon! Thanks! |
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Post by heavy85 on May 29, 2012 22:22:37 GMT -5
So I have: - Camp site - reserved - Car class legal - check (added wiper) - Memorized last years videos - almost - Arm restraints - ordered - Tow van preventative maintenance - parts in hand ... waiting on cooler weather Cant wait! PS - I swear the 'new' Porsche video from rooftop view is sped up ... it looks too fast to be real or I'm just a wuss  I'm trying REALLY hard to not set lap time expectations for myself but will force myself to slow to down to ultimately go faster ... and safer. PPS - Is there an alternate way to get there from the North other than the Tail of the Dragon? If not the last 11 miles of my 600 mile tow journey will include 350+ turns in an E150 + open trailer. One hell of a way to end a long tow! Cameron |
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Post by nutdriverrighty on May 30, 2012 9:01:39 GMT -5
Cameron, Let's look at alternative ways to get there. The Tail of the Dragon is not an easy place to stay in your own lane in the best of circumstances, but it could be reckless to do it with a trailer. Message me on where you're coming from and we'll get in touch with Darryl "Killboy" Cannon and see what he suggests. If you go to www.Killboy.com, you'll see what happens when tractor-trailers decide to do the Dragon. (Yes, I know you're not a semi, but it does illustrate a point). Scott |
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DaGou
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Post by DaGou on May 30, 2012 9:06:44 GMT -5
Now Cameron does not seem to much of a novice. Me I am a real novice!!!! I have a S2000 set up for autox which I do(my first year). No roll bar. I have an OEM hard top. My total novice question is what is the minium I need to do a hill climb? Or do you suggest I start somewhere else first, some other time trial event. I have run the Dragon several times.
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Post by srduck on May 30, 2012 10:01:05 GMT -5
PPS - Is there an alternate way to get there from the North other than the Tail of the Dragon? If not the last 11 miles of my 600 mile tow journey will include 350+ turns in an E150 + open trailer. One hell of a way to end a long tow! Cameron You're probably better off changing your route to go across the Cherohala Skyway. It's curvy, but nowhere near as bad as the Dragon. Just watch your brakes coming down the mountain from TN. I think the highest point on the mountain is about 5,400 ft near the NC/TN border, and the Robbinsville end is only like 2,400. I actually overheated the brakes on my WRX there long ago (granted, it was driving spiritedly), so just be cautious of it if you're towing. There are PLENTY of scenic parking areas you can pull off in if you need to let everything cool off, though. Like Scott said, though.... Killboy is probably THE authority on the area and can give you the best advice for getting there safely. |
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Post by nutdriverrighty on May 30, 2012 11:47:47 GMT -5
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Post by tedebayer on May 30, 2012 12:20:38 GMT -5
PS - I swear the 'new' Porsche video from rooftop view is sped up ... it looks too fast to be real or I'm just a wuss I'm trying REALLY hard to not set lap time expectations for myself but will force myself to slow to down to ultimately go faster ... and safer. Cameron Cameron... hah hah... yep. It does look sped up but it's not. Watching that vid may not be the best one as you will be memorizing blurs instead of landmarks! Mr. Friedman is an excellent driver in a high performance car with LOTS of HP. There are others... and the car John Finger is bringing... something wicked, purple and black with 500+ HP... may make for quite a shoot out for Dragonslayer/ King of the Hill. I'd expect the ladies to put on a show for Queen of the Hill as well. But just for fun, here's Cory's in car... enjoy! |
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Post by blairunderwood on May 30, 2012 12:50:12 GMT -5
Cameron. Try This video we shot from a Miata street car.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUo_YGO6WSo.
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Post by scockrell on May 30, 2012 16:45:57 GMT -5
Cameron, it's a wicked hill fast and fun. Just be careful getting here, folks think they are race car drivers around here. Ted it's not looking good at the moment for me to compete this year, but i'm sure the ladies will put on quite a show. Good luck to all.
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Post by nutdriverrighty on May 31, 2012 7:10:51 GMT -5
Sheila,
Is there anything that I can do to help you and Ray be able to compete?
Scott
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DaGou
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Post by DaGou on May 31, 2012 11:08:01 GMT -5
Not much info on the Southern Driver, a little about how to get a novice license but nothing about the car. The Solo guys are much more friendlier than you guys. Just tell me to go to SCCA.com club racing and figure it myself by sorting through 10,000 pages of info to find out I need a roll bar, a tow hook, helment and fire suit. Thanks alot guys, I can see you do not want new drivers.
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Post by farrout on May 31, 2012 11:53:30 GMT -5
Sorry you feel that way. I can tell you that is not our intention. Drop me a note at farrout <at> knology.net and I will try to answer all your questions specifically. This is a simplification, but basically you will need a rollbar, harness, arm restraints, SA rated helmet, race suit, shoes, gloves, fire bottle. That is pretty much the minimum. You can run stock suspension & street tires but I suggest you upgrade the brake pads and freshen the brake fluid. Ted Theodore has a pretty good driver safety gear loaner program which is advertised on this forum. If you see my article on Southern Driver, what I say about a Miata applies to the S2000 as well re car prep and driver prep. |
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Post by highwayracer on May 31, 2012 12:34:22 GMT -5
This thread, "Starting TT", from a little farther down in the Time Trials News, Info and Results, has some good information on getting started and minimum requirements for cars to compete. The bit about needing a FULL license to run hillclimbs is no longer strictly accurate, but the rest is great. ALL of the TT competitors would love to have more people playing, and will be glad to answer any questions you may have. ccrscca.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tt&action=display&thread=5068 |
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Post by srduck on May 31, 2012 12:35:42 GMT -5
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Post by heavy85 on May 31, 2012 18:14:35 GMT -5
But just for fun, here's Cory's in car... enjoy! Yeah I've watched that probably 30 times so far and it doesn't look nearly as fast in car vs the roof shot. I guess perspective is everything. The last 1/3 of the track looks really rough. Smooth out those spots and there is a lot of time to be gained. As far as newb goes, I've had nothing but positive feedback both this year and last year when I was planning for Crow (that I never made it to). This hillclimb stuff seems to be full of passionate and very friendly people and that makes for half the fun. I dont know about others but I'm literally counting the days until I get my first shot a a hill and as a bonus there are 4 registered in my class so there will be competition. Cameron |
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Post by tedebayer on May 31, 2012 21:27:49 GMT -5
DaGou THIS is the article Scott was referring to : www.thesoutherndriver.com/wp/2012/01/how-to-ready-your-solo-car-for-time-trial/There is no article or publication that can tell you all you need to know... other than the TTR and "digging it out". Please contact Craig or myself and we will be glad to help you as we have done for many others. We want you to get involved, try it out and see if it's for you. It may be it's too much risk for your tastes or the car prep is more than you want to go or the gear is too costly. We can help you with gear through the Second Gear program and we have several very friendly people who are glad to help get you up a hill... IF that is what you want. Sorry I have not been very responsive... between Memorial Monster Road Race, Hillclimb meeting last week in Robbinsville and being in NYC since last Tuesday.... things have been a little crazy. I apologize. I can tell you there is a great deal of work being done by many people to make this a truly exceptional event... and we'd love to have you come and be a part of it. Please write directly to us (Craig or myself) and give us a run-down on what your car current set-up and experience is. Thanks! ;D |
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Post by scockrell on Jun 1, 2012 18:18:39 GMT -5
Anybody know who to contact for a license renewal mistake? Mine came back as crew only...again
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Post by srduck on Jun 1, 2012 18:20:27 GMT -5
Your best bet is probably to call the national office to get it sorted out.... 1-800-770-2055
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Post by scockrell on Jun 5, 2012 7:34:48 GMT -5
Thanks guys, it looks like Ray and I will be there after all. Bring on the Dragon!
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Post by nutdriverrighty on Jun 5, 2012 8:50:42 GMT -5
Sheila,
Janet Farwell in Licensing at SCCA National has gotten stuff resolved quickly for me. Use the # listed above.
Scott
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Post by tedebayer on Jun 5, 2012 10:39:04 GMT -5
Thanks guys, it looks like Ray and I will be there after all. Bring on the Dragon! AWESOME!!!!!! Glad to have you! |
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Post by farrout on Jun 8, 2012 8:19:30 GMT -5
DaGou - We have not heard back from you either privately or publicly in our attempts to help you. We do not want you to go away. We particularly do not want you to go away mad or disenchanted with our program. CCR and TVR have the reputation of being the most customer friendly and helpful organizations in the SEDIV. What can we do for you?
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Post by heavy85 on Jun 15, 2012 17:29:02 GMT -5
One more - it says registration is 'downtown' - I assume it's a small enough town the I will see wherever you are set-up? Tent or table or something?
OK so two more ... also says 'roving tech' - uhhh what's that mean?
I'm soooo looking forward to this.
Cameron
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You will get numerous replies after mine but to fill the response time void, I will answer some of your questions. Your NASA TT license will get you entered. You will need an SCCA weekend membership. This will also get you the full SCCA insurance coverage. Log books will be available at Tech. If you have not done so already, look on the SCCA website and review the Time Trial rules and especially the level four section pertaining to car preparation. 
to better handle the hill? Im thinking just leave it alone since I know it well but also am not used to potholes and such mid corner. 
I'm trying REALLY hard to not set lap time expectations for myself but will force myself to slow to down to ultimately go faster ... and safer.
