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Post by MrsVlad on Nov 14, 2007 8:22:20 GMT -5
Oh, BTW, when was a CCR event shut down by a SSS?
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Post by autoxdad on Nov 14, 2007 8:55:49 GMT -5
I have to stick up for my safety stewards on this. I have never seen any of them threaten to close an event down for some minor issue. There may have been some close calls, but they have worked with me and others to solve the problem. They do have the authority, but none of them has abused it. I also do not see how so many people were delayed that much by waiting to move the cars for a few minutes, how long does it take for a cart to run 4 runs? As I said I am very happy with the safety stewards that I work with and they work hard to run a safe event. Dave - CCR Solo Chairman
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Post by jbyrd on Nov 14, 2007 9:13:16 GMT -5
Oh, BTW, when was a CCR event shut down by a SSS? Never....to my knowledge, nor can I imagine it. Certainly not for a "green car" anyway. It's pretty much spelled out in the 2007 Solo Rules.
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Post by taxidriver on Nov 14, 2007 9:19:24 GMT -5
The point is that if the safety stewards are not to follow the SCCA rules in regard to safety, and can make any rule they feel like making counter-vines the rules the SCCA has put forth.
I didn't say they had shut down an event, but given their god-like powers they could shut down an event because that green car entered the site.
I would hope that the safety stewards would work with the event staff to correct any issues before shutting an event down.
As for how long it takes one cart to make 4 runs. On average for the events I've attended this year. It has taken approx. 30 minutes on average. No, I haven't put a stop watch to it, but I have noted when they get to the start and when they are finished and cars are allowed to start moving again.
I have also worked the first session multiple time when I spent that same 30 minutes watching 1 cart try to get 4 runs completed. Many many times it would stall on course multiple times and have to be pushed back to the start only to do the same again.
Again I don't have an issue with the carts, its just the wasted time that could be utilized while the cart is out on course.
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Post by lagunamiata on Nov 14, 2007 10:39:24 GMT -5
I think that we all agree that having all engines off because of the carts is an inconvenience. We (yes I'm a SSS) do not want to cause problems with everyone else at the event.
Is it time for the CCR Safety Stewards to review this policy? Yes it is...
Dave and I have talked about having the core staff get together over the off season. We'll review this (and other ideas) for next season.
Now, I'll put on my system admin hat... Ease off the personal attacks - NOW. And yes, I do have God-like powers on the forum!!
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Post by VpointVick on Nov 14, 2007 17:38:19 GMT -5
I find it ironic that someone is complaining about wasted time following this last event. We ran 599 runs and were done by 3:30! How much more efficient do we need to be before everyone's happy?
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Post by soloracer on Nov 14, 2007 18:49:44 GMT -5
1. There appears to have been NO thought about how grid was going to be handled prior to the 1st group being called to grid. There we easily 40 cars that needed to be gridded and there were less than 20 spots. This caused mass confusion as no one knew where to go. It also caused some people to get all there runs in rapid succession, while others waited seemingly forever. This confusion continued thru the second group, and was only slightly better by the 3rd group. This should not happen. Having a working grid area is nearly as important as a workable course. This should not be left as an after thought. Solution: Make sure there is a pre-defined area that is set a side for grid. this area should allow for approx 30-40 cars. The most space efficient would be an area that would allow for 6-8 rows of 5 cars nose to tail. [/i][/quote] GREAT!!! sounds like we have a volunteer for grid chief. See ya about seven A.M. at the next event. ;D James
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Post by dstan on Nov 14, 2007 19:03:15 GMT -5
Actually I will give up grid space for more Course anyday. As long as you get your runs what is the difference. and when we do have a perfect Grid You still have to wait your turn.
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Post by damnyankee on Nov 14, 2007 20:43:25 GMT -5
1. There appears to have been NO thought about how grid was going to be handled prior to the 1st group being called to grid. There we easily 40 cars that needed to be gridded and there were less than 20 spots. This caused mass confusion as no one knew where to go. It also caused some people to get all there runs in rapid succession, while others waited seemingly forever. This confusion continued thru the second group, and was only slightly better by the 3rd group. This should not happen. Having a working grid area is nearly as important as a workable course. This should not be left as an after thought. Solution: Make sure there is a pre-defined area that is set a side for grid. this area should allow for approx 30-40 cars. The most space efficient would be an area that would allow for 6-8 rows of 5 cars nose to tail. [/i][/quote] GREAT!!! sounds like we have a volunteer for grid chief. See ya about seven A.M. at the next event. ;D James[/quote] Excellent point James!! After all, that's how I got the Timing position!!!
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Post by charlotterx8 on Nov 15, 2007 7:24:22 GMT -5
Wow!, I thought this thread was here to provide a place for discussion about things that might be done to improve events! Taxidriver apparently is trying to do that by pointing out things that he either experienced or heard others comment about. Some of the people responding have had what I would call a possitive reaction. They talked about it in a way that looks at the issues brought up and recognize that if someone is bringing up an issue here it is in an effort to make things better. Others here on the other hand have chosen to ridicule and argue with the issues raised. This is all to often the result when someone suggests change. Yes I had a great time at the event on Sunday! Thanks so much to all who made it possible. Great Job!! Is it possible to do better? OF COURSE!!! The perfect event you have ever attended could have been better in some way. The reason for this thread is to come up with ideas that do just that! I have been there at the events and seen everything stop on site when everything should be gearing up to start, Why? because there are carts. I don't have a problem with the carts, I simply like so many that I have heard comments from don't understand why all 145 ants at the event have to put their event in neutral and shut off their engines while there is a cart on course. I suggested at the last event that maybe the carts should be run last rather than first. At least if that were to happen we wouldn't be asking all other participants to just stop and wait until they are done. If the carts ran last, and they are pushed to the hot grid without anyone behind the wheel. The only thing they would delay is the course breakdown and trophies. Just my 2 cents. PS I have more to say but have to leave for now.
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Post by tedebayer on Nov 15, 2007 9:08:04 GMT -5
Kum ba yah....Kum ba yah.... Let's all hold hands and sing along, you know the words.... Jeesh people. Let's step back and look whats happening here in the "Group Dynamic" overview. We have a non-paid volunteer group that have a common love and interest. Each person has their own way of expressing themselves... and on line, NONE of us come across as well as we do in person. What seems to be an offense to some is merely a statement. What seems to be a vicious attack is really a defensive remark or a remark explaining their position. BUT WITHOUT VISUAL CUES AND VOICE INFLECTIONS things get misread. This creates misunderstandings and next thing you know, you ate up 3 pages of forum space and everyone has their panties in a wad. Take a chill pill. This is common.. look around the net...in other forums. Misunderstandings occur all the time and most are caused reading into words inflections that were not intended. Suddenly, it becomes a team event and fingers are pointed and there are white hats and black hats. Good and bad... but funny enough, each thinks the other is the black hats. I don't think this was an attack originally and I'm sure everyone of us has respect and appreciation for what the grid workers and safety stews do. There are no bad guys and this is not a tag team barbed wire cage competition. No one is bashing SCCA, the club, the stewards or it's officers. If we label a thread "Autocross Improvement Idea thread", you can expect to hear some opinions and ideas. Some good... some suck in a world class fashion. That's okay. It's brainstorming. I think the key is bring up the ideas here... don't feel the need to dissect them as a group on line. Let the officers think it over and consider and let them make the decision. We as members don't make the decision...our officers do. We elected them and we need to let them do their jobs. If we don't like the way they do their jobs, vote for someone else or run yourself. If you lose, shut up .... you are the minority. If we had a Regional Director (for our purposes today, we'll call him Dick) who jumped into autocross events and made decisions on running the events or course layout... decided there should be three runs today instead of 4, we'd be unhappy. He has a job and he needs to know his place. Guess what. WE are members... and we need to know our place as well. It is not to make decisions or to do analysis for our officers. They are not dummies... give them ideas, let THEM analyze, discuss and let them make decisions based on SCCA rules and let them throw them out or use them as they see fit. They have studied, attended meetings and sacrificed their time so they can learn and make good deecsions. They are privy to information WE don't have. On this thread (which is a good idea source for our club) you have to contribute but fight the urge to comment and argue on every idea thrown out. If we don;t...you get a mess...hmmmmm...kind'a like this one. Can we run events better? YES. Did anyone miss their runs sunday? Did any one get mad and leave because the carts delayed things? C'mon people. We do need to continually improve our event flow and execution. You know what's better than ideas... go to Dave and say"How can I help?" before the event or during the event. Come early and help set up ... or hang around after to tear down. Offer to learn timing and scoring. OR ....for the good of the club.. work two groups instead of the minimum required one. Gettting involved and helping is a much more positive way of improving autocrosses than throwing out ideas on a forum, doing a public autopsy on them and then getting huffy because everyone does not agree. You got an idea to make an autocross better?...Cool beans! State it... in this forum ...or better yet write an email to an officer. They will listen. But hacking at each other and defensive posturing on line and getting hurt feelings is detrimental to the club and needs to stop. Frankly, while I agree with a number of opinions that have been stated in here on both sides, I am a little embarassed that some of the newbies we are recruiting are coming to event, having a blast, thinking what a great bunch of people...and then coming on line and seeing arguing like this. I always hate going to Walmart and seeing ladies walking around in a nightgown and haircurlers... or guys with pajama bottoms and a holey t-shirt... I think to myself, "I would be scared to death to run into someone I knew." They don't care what people think. Well... here we are at Walmart on line... and your image is the image of CCR. Let's take it up a notch, put on our big boy underwear and move forward. We got a great club and it is growing... individual member's passion comes through at events and it is contagious. We are here to have fun, compete and fellowship. No one is getting paid for their work but as John Byrd so well put..."The satisfaction of seeing folks enjoy themselves is priceless." That's what it's all about... not the hoky poky. ;D
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Post by MrsVlad on Nov 15, 2007 13:59:23 GMT -5
Exalt
Ted, no one could have said that better.
Thank you.
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Post by markt on Nov 15, 2007 14:52:44 GMT -5
As the one who stated that no cars would run while the carts were running I would like to add a few cents.
First, that was my first SS speech, I wasn't prepared, that's not a defense, just a fact. I got one comment later about rider rules...no one here, however, has noted the abscence of that info in my little rambling Sunday morn. P-Dawg had a set of 3x5 cards that he used after how many SS talks?
Although I've taken the Solo SS class and perfomed assistant functions in the past my Safety Steward Certification from Topeka is for Time Trials. One thing that is stressed regarding TT is common sense. I think this is the approach needed for addressing kart safety. The unique nature of each site needs to be considered when doing grid and how karts are handled. However, one thing about the karts is that once they start running they don't come near the grid or paddock for some time. If karts are pushed to the stage line immediately after the driver's meeting(heck, you could bring them to the drivers meeting) then annnounce Group 1 Drivers come to grid, they then grid while the karts run. Karts stay in the start/finish area until all kart runs are complete, push karts back to paddock, run Group 1.
Just a thought...
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Post by sleeper on Nov 15, 2007 16:36:33 GMT -5
No one responded to my initial thought which was echoed by charlotterx8, it was actually his idea to begin with:
Why not run the carts at the END of the day after the last heat???
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Post by tedebayer on Nov 15, 2007 16:47:56 GMT -5
Steve... did you read Rich's post? I think that we all agree that having all engines off because of the carts is an inconvenience. We (yes I'm a SSS) do not want to cause problems with everyone else at the event. Is it time for the CCR Safety Stewards to review this policy? Yes it is... Dave and I have talked about having the core staff get together over the off season. We'll review this (and other ideas) for next season. Or would you like to make an official motion on the forum and vote this through before those pesky officers get involved? ;D C'mon... That's a great idea you have. No one is saying it's a bad idea and you and charlotterx8 get full credit. You have made your point. Now leave the idea with the officers and let them work on it. I think we are beating a dead horse... more comments on THIS topic is just trying to get attention or trying to get a rise out of someone so we can argue. How about some other ideas? Anyone?
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Post by MrsVlad on Nov 15, 2007 18:32:34 GMT -5
Can we have a water balloon toss at the July event?
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Post by autoxdad on Nov 15, 2007 19:24:31 GMT -5
Can we have a water balloon toss at the July event? You mean like a wet t shirt contest? ?
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Post by autoxdad on Nov 15, 2007 19:28:12 GMT -5
No one responded to my initial thought which was echoed by charlotterx8, it was actually his idea to begin with: Why not run the carts at the END of the day after the last heat???My first thought is that at the end of the day, there are even more cars moving around because everyone is trying to leave, but we can discuss it at some meetings. Dave
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racerx
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by racerx on Nov 15, 2007 21:49:51 GMT -5
How about at the next test and tune, let anyone who has registered a car to bring a cart for free. While we are at it, let's bring out the riding mowers and anything else with 4 wheels and a motor and race them too. After all, this is the South, and we will run anything with wheels and a propulsion system! Count me in!
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Post by maacodale on Nov 15, 2007 22:07:32 GMT -5
A quick novice meeting for both course driving AND course WORKING would be beneficial. That was implimented in SE VA the last few years and really helps the new drivers. They even get their own walk through right after the drivers meetings usually. Also a quick tutorial for cone replacement and radio etiquette. Seems to help.
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Post by trickbrick on Nov 15, 2007 22:22:07 GMT -5
A quick novice meeting for both course driving AND course WORKING would be beneficial. That was implimented in SE VA the last few years and really helps the new drivers. They even get their own walk through right after the drivers meetings usually. Also a quick tutorial for cone replacement and radio etiquette. Seems to help. Agreed! At one autocross I attended, even though there had been a novice meeting for course working ... one corner ended up with all newbies and they kept throwing the red flag inappropriately. I ended up running up to their corner and kinda helping them through a few calls and what to do. (was working as DSSS that day). Something I've thought about was in addition to the meeting, somehow working things out so that there's always at least one experienced person per corner. I know that worker assignments are generally pretty hectic, though, so I'm not sure how that could be done exactly. I'll let you know if I think of anything.
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Post by lagunamiata on Nov 16, 2007 6:19:17 GMT -5
We usually have a novice walk and a short "cone course" at the start of events. I'm not sure if it was done at the last event, I was in the trailer for the driver meeting.
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Post by C4Shane on Nov 16, 2007 7:46:42 GMT -5
How about at the next test and tune, let anyone who has registered a car to bring a cart for free. While we are at it, let's bring out the riding mowers and anything else with 4 wheels and a motor and race them too. After all, this is the South, and we will run anything with wheels and a propulsion system! Count me in! What a great idea!!! Exalt for that !! And to Jeannie for the wet T-shirt/Waterballon toss idea - That is what this thread is all about - helping us to have more fun. Ok - time to get that 1100 cc Sea-Doo motor Colin has on the bench installed in my garden tractor - bet I can get some Hoosiers off of the Fiesta to fit! Hmmm, would that be in XP class???
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Post by MrsVlad on Nov 16, 2007 9:11:33 GMT -5
Can we have a water balloon toss at the July event? You mean like a wet t shirt contest? ? Maybe for the Charity Event. 25 cents each, toss 'em to anyone you want. Weather they know it or not. hehehehe I volunteer to bring the full balloons, & collect the $ .. IF it's OK with you.
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Post by tedebayer on Nov 16, 2007 9:14:02 GMT -5
Shane...don't park the new creation too close to the Fiesta... rust is contagious. The new vehicle would be gone by spring... ;D Wet T Shirt contest? I don't think so... I'm not about to get a bad case of "nipple chafe" from a wet shirt just so the women in our club can get a cheap thrill. On a more serious note, I do think we need to not have Ladies presenting the trophies in the future. There were a few ladies in attendance at the Nov. 11th event who were uncomfortable with this and one refused to run because of it. I never intended to offend anyone and it was for free as advertising for Hooters so no club funds were used for them being there. I take full responsibility ; it was my idea and the BOD is not to blame. I think most ladies thought it was pretty funny...seeing guys act like idiots around the Hooters girls... the camera man never once had to say smile during the entire photo shoot of the awards ceremony. We NEVER had a clean-up of site go that quickly. I think my wife was very comfortable about the whole thing ...and even remarked that "you would be like a dog chasing a car. You wouldn't know what to do with it if you caught it!" ;D If you think this was demeaning to the women, I would point out that those girls worked less than an hour and were paid over $50. There are women who do much more demanding work for a lot less and ... these seemed to enjoy what they did. They consider it being in the entertainment industry. During the time I was wearing a Hooter's shirt and presenting awards, I made only $2 ...and that was when Lisa from the Highlands Club and Aimee both tucked a bill in my belt. I am confident my take would have been higher if I had gone the full "T-shirt, shorts and socks" outfit... or if I had gone with the Derek May Halloween Biker costume I might have done pretty well. We seem to be moving to a world of political correctness where everyone must be sensitive of others feelings to a point of paranoia. As you may have heard, several chain stores this year are hiring Santas for this Christmas and telling them "you must say Ha Ha Ha...not Ho Ho Ho" to avoid making rude references that could offend mothers or women in general. I think we all need to have a sense of humor about this and go easy. TJ and needed a fuel line on a sunday afternoon a while back so we and went to Lowes. We looked every where and were unable to find the right aisle. We stopped in hardwares and TJ asked a sweet African American lady who worked there "Where do you keep the black hose?" She laughed and said "Back on the loading dock, they are on break right now!" ;D We all really need to be a little more understanding with our cohabitants in this world and laugh at some of this stuff that is creating The United States of the Offended. Nonetheless, I do not wish to make anyone uncomfy at our events and I would suggest we not do that again. While you can't make everyone happy... our lady drivers are just as important as our male drivers in this club. While we could offer equal time and have Chippendale's come to award the ladies trophies (and I think we WERE darn close at this event) I think a better solution is not to have presenters other than Super Dave and our sponsors. (Now if Hooters was a sponsor, it might be okay.. or ... we can always impeach Dave and elect a Hooter's girl as autocross chairman. Yeah... I DID think this through pretty well... ) Please take this as an "AUTOCROSS IMPROVEMENT IDEA" and we will leave this up to our BOD to decide. I don't want to start another flame war or vicous finger pointing thread chain...and besides, ...I have to practice what I preach.
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Post by MrsVlad on Nov 16, 2007 9:31:15 GMT -5
You are intitled to your opion, as is everyone. I don't think the whole should suffer for the sake of a few. Keep the Hooters Girls.
Your story reminded me of the day my Mom asked the stock boy "Do you have cotton balls?" He answered "Do I look like a teddybear?" "Isle 3."
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Post by sleeper on Nov 16, 2007 9:53:48 GMT -5
Steve... did you read Rich's post? Or would you like to make an official motion on the forum and vote this through before those pesky officers get involved? ;D C'mon... That's a great idea you have. No one is saying it's a bad idea and you and charlotterx8 get full credit. You have made your point. Now leave the idea with the officers and let them work on it. I think we are beating a dead horse... more comments on THIS topic is just trying to get attention or trying to get a rise out of someone so we can argue. How about some other ideas? Anyone? Yes I read Rich's post Ted. My intent was not to get a rise out of anyone, get attention, or make sure I get credit for this idea. Unlike some others, I was not flaming or ridiculing anyone in this thread, just trying to facilitate an idea that I thought might be a simple solution to this issue. I see now that the issue is not that "simple". I do agree that the officers should talk about this in the off season and come up with a sensible solution. I know other regions have outright banned carts from events, I think we can come up with a good solution that benefits everyone.
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Post by jbyrd on Nov 16, 2007 11:53:18 GMT -5
Nonetheless, I do not wish to make anyone uncomfy at our events and I would suggest we not do that again. Yes I agree. We should be politically correct in CCR and not offend anyone. Now where's that Scantily Clad Wemenz thread? ;D
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Post by trickbrick on Nov 16, 2007 12:32:44 GMT -5
Now where's that Scantily Clad Wemenz thread? Lol, y'all are almost lucky I came to an event at ALL when I first moved here! The forums here are a lot different from back home, so at first I was a bit scared . Well...must not have been too scared...I guess I figured I could tease y'all just as much as y'all could post scantily clad wemenz . But now we're Way off topic. Back to improving autocrosses...
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Post by damnyankee on Nov 16, 2007 16:50:45 GMT -5
Now where's that Scantily Clad Wemenz thread? Lol, y'all are almost lucky I came to an event at ALL when I first moved here! The forums here are a lot different from back home, so at first I was a bit scared . Well...must not have been too scared...I guess I figured I could tease y'all just as much as y'all could post scantily clad wemenz . But now we're Way off topic. Back to improving autocrosses... No comment....
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