FSP Motor question

[volksman]

Just taking a breeze through the SP section of the rules and it says I can swap from models by the same manufacturer as long as they are on the same line of the index and no machining takes place to facilitate the swap.

If I swap in a motor from a 411 or 412, which are also aircooled cars, is that legal? i don't see them listed anywhere in the SP car classification section. Big Block beetle anyone?

[MattP]

After our conversation today, I looked at the SP appendix for car classing. Unfortunately, the Karmann Ghia is on a different line than the Beetle. The only model on the line is "Beetle (RWD)". For an example of multiple cars on the same line, look at "Rabbit & Jetta & Scirocco & Cabriolet & Pickup (8V, ‘75-’92) (A-1 chassis)"

If a car isn't classed, you can't update and backdate from it. You can write a letter to try and get it classed, though.

You can use an engine (as a unit) from any VW Beetle, but no other air cooled models.

[volksman]

By same line do they mean, same line of print, or same line/same class?(any VW in "FSP") By what you're saying, the golf, jetta and scirroco are listed mulitple times on multiple lines, that would be redundant and sort of condridictory to themselves.
As for the 411 412 not being classified, I'm sure that's only an oversight as their performance is hardly if at all better than the beetle.

By the rational you've given, the cabrio of 85-92 can't share any parts with any other golfs or rabbits as they are on their own line.Yet farther down the list the cabrio is lumped with the rabbit, jetta scirroco and pickup of years 75-92. Which is correct? If the first is true, why is the cabrio listed a second time, and if the second is true, why is the cabrio givin it's own line? Greg

Thanks for the help.

[MattP]

Same line of print.

The Golf, Jetta and Scirocco are listed multiple times, but only over a specific platform (A1, A2 or A3) or specific family of engines, like the TDI.

[soloracer]

The 411 is the Porch 914 engine. Never used in a Beetle.
NOT LEEGAL.

[volksman]

No, the Porsche 914 motor is a VW411 motor;D (although the heads are slightly different, intake bolt pattern)

But, if the line read, "all aircooled vw's" then it would be usable, correct? Because flywheels are open in SP and higher and no other machining would be required, cooling system remaines the same type (air) .

So now all I would have to do is get the national board to change one itty-bitty line out of 300 odd pages.

I can dream can't I?


Hey Soloracer, how's Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

[MrsVlad]

volksman said:

Hey Soloracer, how's Chitty Chitty Bang Bang?

It ran just fine for me. I even got full boost, & no snap cackle pop. It likes me. ;D

[soloracer]

chitty-chitty ran fine on the way home, Thanks.It likes Jeannie.
Musta wanted more attention. Gotta Polish the wheels, I guess.

To clarify the rule book,
Example:
The MGA and MGb are similar cars, but appear on seperate lines in the rule book, therefore altho the engines are almost identical in appearance, you cannot put the "B" engine in an "a".
beetles used many engine sizes, but the 411 Engine was only used in 411 412 And porch 914's
Any 113 engine is legal ,but not the 411 unless you switch to s/m.
Hope this Makes sense.
This is similar to early super vee formula cars being air cooled 411's and later S/V cars being watercooled.

[soloracer]

P.S. if you really want a 411, Ask me for a few tips.
James

[damnyankee]

I'm calling 911

[volksman]

That motor was also used in 72-83 buses, and the 912 but with three bolt intake manifolds instead of 4 on the Prosche models.

Now that I know you're a VW nut like me I can pick what's left of your brain for information.

I could also do the swap and go into XP as well. Heck, in that class I could use a Subby and have a VWRX! Put those four letters in your Google and smoke it.

Just to let the cat out of the bag, I petitioned the Solo Events Board yesterday to put all aircooled VW's on the same line in FSP and up. At the very least the standard bugs should get the Karmen Ghia disc brakes as those are a bolt on. I also asked that the Super Beetle get to use the disc brakes that came stock in Europe. They are a common swap that many people do and are pretty cheap. I know there are a few other cars that come with drum brakes up front, but I couldn't think of any. Drums in SP are scary, and in a street driven car would be the first to go in the bin. The guys on the national forum thought it all sounded quite reasonable, but I doubt I'll get the big block swap by them. I'd just like to be a little more competitive, and I thought it wouldn't exactly make it a giant slayer or national threat by any means. Please, wish me luck. Greg

[MrsVlad]

good luck, Greg

[C4Shane]

After you get that thru, I wanna get a 3.0L Cosworth-Ford F-1 motor stuffed into my Fiesta....it otta be Leegal..they are both water cooled they are...

Good luck.

[soloracer]

saabstory said:

After you get that thru, I wanna get a 3.0L Cosworth-Ford F-1 motor stuffed into my Fiesta....it otta be Leegal..they are both water cooled they are...

Good luck.

Hummm, BRM v-16, an old Ford polimotor, Renault turbo fron early 80's F-1, coupla old Coventry Climaxes. Sorry Shayne, no 3.0 ford F-1 motor in the museum, just a bunch of other junk.
James

[lagunamiata]

Heck, why not just go for SM and drop in a water cooled V-6 from a newer VW... same family!!

[volksman]

Aw, come on Shane.Going from a 2.0 to a 3.0? Now that's huge. How about the 2.3?

The 411 and the 412 motor would more than likely be the only ones that would be allowed as they have to be from a car. So the bus 2.0 is out and the Porsche is as well. That leaves the 1700 and 1800. So the best I can hope for is 200 CC. And a nearly bullet proof bottom end. The journals on those motors are the size of a 351'S!

Like I said, I doubt the motor part will slip by undetected, but it's really up to member comments if it gets past the board. What I really want is the end of the drum to disc swapping ban in SP. Can you imagine a car like Zimmer's with drums up front? I'm hoping to be a 3/4 Zimmer. The parts to swap to discs on my car are 180 bucks, all OEM VW. Why VW didn't bring them into the country with discs is beyond me.

[volksman]

Just to clarifiy. It's not a matter of me thinking that it SHOULD be legal just because of the air-cooled or for any other reason like that. It's a matter of me WANTING it to become legal. If some guy wanted to stuff a B-block in his early MGA with a "A" block, do you think anyone will? The MGA is way to valuable, though I concede that someone with more money than brains might. I'm already buying parts for this motor anyway as I can't afford a type4 motor this year. But I can swing disc brakes. It was more of a multi-pronged rule request, so I really do hope the brakes part gets through. On the shoptalkforums.com site, there were a few others who want to have them on their older VW's so they can run FSP. One's in CHarlotte, bugthebuilder. He said he's coming out next year with us and I've seen his car, it's very well built and detailed. Can't wait to not be alone. Cheers, Greg