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Post by yellow CR on Apr 7, 2014 18:09:16 GMT -5
Congrats to Mr Wendel on his winning course design. THE WENDEL |
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Post by dwendel on Apr 7, 2014 18:43:53 GMT -5
How wide is a normal gate? I don't want to make it so that only my kart can get between a gate.
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 7, 2014 18:53:00 GMT -5
How wide is a normal gate? I don't want to make it so that only my kart can get between a gate. Gates should be 15ft minimum, but all my gates are 25ft |
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Post by CoolGuy094 on Apr 8, 2014 7:55:07 GMT -5
This is a fun idea.
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Post by z3elda on Apr 8, 2014 9:33:13 GMT -5
stay 25' away from any hard object, like a light pole...
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Post by drum3 on Apr 8, 2014 15:47:51 GMT -5
75ft away if driving straight towards a solid object.
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Post by dwendel on Apr 8, 2014 17:49:49 GMT -5
How many designs are we allowed to submit?
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Post by drum3 on Apr 8, 2014 18:26:39 GMT -5
Just for reference the Insurance clearances are 25ft from a solid object on the inside of a curve , 50ft from the outside of a curve in the direction the car is moving ( the outside of the curve can be 25ft if the car is already turned away from the solid objects) and a minimum of 75ft if driving straight at it.
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Post by xeric13x on Apr 8, 2014 19:05:03 GMT -5
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 8, 2014 19:48:01 GMT -5
How many designs are we allowed to submit? As many as you want, but I will only use one per person to be voted on. |
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Post by lkbumm on Apr 13, 2014 15:30:30 GMT -5
Mike,
Just a suggestion.
Could you use the same course, 4/5/14, two more times during the season?? Maybe mid summer and once in the fall.
For those of us who are trying to dial in a setup, doing this would give us a benchmark to use to see if we're going forward or backward.
I'd be surprised if there were any complains about the course design. All I heard was positive.
Just saying.
BTW: Here's an "ATTABOY" for the course design and the way the event was run.
Bill
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 16, 2014 11:56:07 GMT -5
hey Mike, do you have any "pro tips" for doing this on a computer? Like what software do you use to place the cones on the image and how do you get the measurements between key cones and the light poles? I've tried sketching out a couple designs by hand, but it's tough to accurately reflect the distances unless I place every cone right on the 50' grid you have.
Are you looking for a design that has everything measured perfectly so you can print out and setup? Or are you just looking for a general course map with approximate measurements that you'll run thru your own computer software?
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 16, 2014 17:01:40 GMT -5
hey Mike, do you have any "pro tips" for doing this on a computer? Like what software do you use to place the cones on the image and how do you get the measurements between key cones and the light poles? I've tried sketching out a couple designs by hand, but it's tough to accurately reflect the distances unless I place every cone right on the 50' grid you have. Are you looking for a design that has everything measured perfectly so you can print out and setup? Or are you just looking for a general course map with approximate measurements that you'll run thru your own computer software? Looking for a general course, I can go in with my Flash software and make it pretty, and get any measurements accurate. If you have a version of Flash, I can send you my file that has everything you need to drag n drop a course layout. |
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 17, 2014 19:07:42 GMT -5
hey Mike, do you have any "pro tips" for doing this on a computer? Like what software do you use to place the cones on the image and how do you get the measurements between key cones and the light poles? I've tried sketching out a couple designs by hand, but it's tough to accurately reflect the distances unless I place every cone right on the 50' grid you have. Are you looking for a design that has everything measured perfectly so you can print out and setup? Or are you just looking for a general course map with approximate measurements that you'll run thru your own computer software? Looking for a general course, I can go in with my Flash software and make it pretty, and get any measurements accurate. If you have a version of Flash, I can send you my file that has everything you need to drag n drop a course layout. Thanks Mike. I sent you a PM. |
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 20, 2014 23:20:55 GMT -5
CAST YOUR VOTE!
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Post by cr89x on Apr 21, 2014 6:29:44 GMT -5
Those are some great designs!
Thanks to everyone who submitted
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Post by drum3 on Apr 21, 2014 10:54:54 GMT -5
I hope Wendels run up from the turn around isnt as wide open as the map makes it look . I've never used 4th gear at an autocross before but I dont see any lift from the turn around back until just before the finish and very little turning the steering wheel.
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Post by CoolGuy094 on Apr 21, 2014 12:48:26 GMT -5
I hope Wendels run up from the turn around isnt as wide open as the map makes it look . I've never used 4th gear at an autocross before but I dont see any lift from the turn around back until just before the finish and very little turning the steering wheel. Exactly.  |
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 21, 2014 15:06:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the hard work on the course designs! All the submissions look pretty darn good, so choosing is going to be tough. I do share Anthony's concern on Wendel's map...that long section after the turn-around looks crazy fast! But maybe it's tighter than it looks on paper. Makes me wish I still had my WRX for that!
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 21, 2014 19:13:02 GMT -5
I hope Wendels run up from the turn around isnt as wide open as the map makes it look . I've never used 4th gear at an autocross before but I dont see any lift from the turn around back until just before the finish and very little turning the steering wheel. It's made to be like the Road Atlanta Esses, which are fast. But if you think you are getting through the last 60ft gate before the funnel without braking, you will be picking out from under your car, the 6 cones on the right side of that gate. |
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Post by dwendel on Apr 21, 2014 21:48:58 GMT -5
My design I made from taking parts of real race tracks and putting cones in correct locations.
The start is VIR left hook followed by Snake, next is part of the climbing esses, always a fun section in real life, should be quite fast here, the cones wiggle around, not your normal slalom. After the first esses is Turn 9 at GoPro motorplex, one of my favorite corners, the compromised entry, the limiting wall makes this corner quite difficult, just like the real turn. I have it close to a 1:1 ratio of the real turn, which in the kart is 2nd gear entry. The Laguna Seca corkscrew is next, I thought what better of a turn to go over a dip, hopefully it translates well to zmax. The corkscrew is followed by a mirrored version of Suzuka Turn 1&2, and esses. This section should be quite fun, and just like the real esses if you mess the first turn up you get screwed on the second. Then we go back to VIR for one of the most iconic corners, Oak Tree. With no real braking zone, you will need to chose to brake early or grow a pair and dive in. Now the fast section as Licursi mentioned this is the Road Atlanta esses, which are quite fast in real life. The real version has quite a bit of elevation change that we will be missing. I am expecting middle of 3rd on cars with short gear boxes. Just like Road Atlanta the esses are followed by Turn 5. You will need to brake for this turn, else you will be into the wall and picking up some a nice penalty points. Now to the funnel, the exit is quite narrow compared to normal zmax gate. This gives you a good area to build up some speed turn it into heat energy at the double 90's, which is a homage to Road Atlanta Turn 10a&b. AND ACROSS THE LINE.
This was my first every course design, I hope you like it. I enjoyed making it. I have a few other ideas, that I need to put on paper to see if they would be any good.
Happy Voting
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Post by matthugie on Apr 21, 2014 22:10:12 GMT -5
I don't have a dog in this fight as I am going to miss this event, but these are some great courses. I like Wendel's explanation though.
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Post by cr89x on Apr 22, 2014 7:07:51 GMT -5
Wendell, that's amazing! It really needs that write up with the design. I can see it all! That's awesome! Turn five doesnt quite translate well, but I think it'll work. And you mean 10b 10a to the finish ;p I think you just swung my vote!
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Post by drum3 on Apr 22, 2014 9:50:25 GMT -5
I stand by my first comment,, if it's laid out like the graph,, in my miata there will be no lift until after the funnel,,, if anything I might have to go to 3/4 throttle to get through that last gate,, and then only if I'm behind on setting up my corners.
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Post by dwendel on Apr 22, 2014 13:01:45 GMT -5
Anthony, these cone placements are not GPS locations. If the RA S & Turn 5 section end up being faster then previously though during Licursi's test runs. We talked about sliding the Turn 5 entry wall toward the drag strip a few feet. It would keep the flow, but slow it down quite it bit.
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 22, 2014 14:06:55 GMT -5
I think it's worth noting that Mike almost always makes a few adjustments to his ZMAX courses after we finish the initial setup. What looks good on paper can sometimes be too fast or painfully slower than originally thought. Daniel's post reminded me that we probably should be voting based on the overall flow of the map design we like. Mike and our safety stewards will make the appropriate adjustments (if needed) once the course is setup.
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Post by drum3 on Apr 22, 2014 16:12:59 GMT -5
Anthony, these cone placements are not GPS locations. If the RA S & Turn 5 section end up being faster then previously though during Licursi's test runs. We talked about sliding the Turn 5 entry wall toward the drag strip a few feet. It would keep the flow, but slow it down quite it bit. Go back and look at Licursi's last course ,, similar flow on that side to yours but much more compact and a greater offset between the gates . I hit the rev limiter in 2nd twice in those esses with only slight lifts (3/4 throttle) at each corner to set the front . Yours are much longer and less offset . If I was at the top of 2nd on his course I can reach the top of 3rd on yours. I think the flow is fine but I think the esses need a much greater offset or else it will essentially be a straight for some cars.At the very least I see 900-1,000ft of no lift area,,, how fast can your kart get in 900 ft if you dont have to lift ? btw , thats well over an 1/8th of a mile with about a 25mph launch !! |
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Post by frankenstook on Apr 23, 2014 13:44:01 GMT -5
Go back and look at Licursi's last course ,, similar flow on that side to yours but much more compact and a greater offset between the gates . I hit the rev limiter in 2nd twice in those esses with only slight lifts (3/4 throttle) at each corner to set the front . Yours are much longer and less offset . If I was at the top of 2nd on his course I can reach the top of 3rd on yours. I think the flow is fine but I think the esses need a much greater offset or else it will essentially be a straight for some cars.At the very least I see 900-1,000ft of no lift area,,, how fast can your kart get in 900 ft if you dont have to lift ? btw , thats well over an 1/8th of a mile with about a 25mph launch !! Come on... I know, that as an experienced course designer, you see the easy, obvious fix just as well as I do. At course setup time, after testing, if it's decided to be too fast, the second and third 5-cone walls (the ones that have left-pointers) get pushed wider toward the edge of the course or angled slightly. It's pretty easy to reign in the speed and maintain good flow. |
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Post by belcher on Apr 23, 2014 14:29:35 GMT -5
I think it's worth noting that Mike almost always makes a few adjustments to his ZMAX courses after we finish the initial setup. What looks good on paper can sometimes be too fast or painfully slower than originally thought. Daniel's post reminded me that we probably should be voting based on the overall flow of the map design we like. Mike and our safety stewards will make the appropriate adjustments (if needed) once the course is setup. Agreed. If it's too fast (isn't that an oxymoron in regards to racing?)It will be adjusted. I think all the course designs are good. We may not like some of them but they all have challenges. Maybe we should run each of these this year and vote again on which one we like the best. I'll wager you vote for the one you finished best at. |
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Post by drum3 on Apr 23, 2014 18:46:02 GMT -5
Go back and look at Licursi's last course ,, similar flow on that side to yours but much more compact and a greater offset between the gates . I hit the rev limiter in 2nd twice in those esses with only slight lifts (3/4 throttle) at each corner to set the front . Yours are much longer and less offset . If I was at the top of 2nd on his course I can reach the top of 3rd on yours. I think the flow is fine but I think the esses need a much greater offset or else it will essentially be a straight for some cars.At the very least I see 900-1,000ft of no lift area,,, how fast can your kart get in 900 ft if you dont have to lift ? btw , thats well over an 1/8th of a mile with about a 25mph launch !! Come on... I know, that as an experienced course designer, you see the easy, obvious fix just as well as I do. At course setup time, after testing, if it's decided to be too fast, the second and third 5-cone walls (the ones that have left-pointers) get pushed wider toward the edge of the course or angled slightly. It's pretty easy to reign in the speed and maintain good flow. I never said it wasnt an easy fix and Daniel had already discussed that . I simply stated that if it was laid out AS IT IS it is way too fast . I was just giving a heads up so it was addressed and they were ready with a fix. I too have made the mistakes of making sections at Zmax too fast ,,because we are not used to working with that much space . I have even went back and tightened up areas that even after tightening them up they left most deep in 3rd gear . |
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