IMPORTANT RULE CHANGE - NEED INPUT!!

[gbowland]

Although I think the TT school at TGPR is a great program that can and does give officials a chance to look at a driver's skills and attitude, it is not the only way we could handle hillclimb training. As I have mentioned before, PHA allows novices to run any of their eight annual events. A novice is defined as a driver that has not run the hill or track for the past two years. The program requires a novice chief and imput from the course workers and officials. The vast majority of incidents at PHA events involve seasoned drivers. If that approach works in PHA, it would certainly work here, as we have a skilled and experienced work crew just as does the PHA. Since hillclimbing resembles Autocross more than it does track events, many of the PHA drivers come from that realm rather than track pursuits. Please remember, we ran Chimney Rock for 52 events without an outside novice program. I believe we would draw many from autocross directly if we mirrored the PHA approach.
George

[highwayracer]

I agree that a hill climb is more like a fast autocross than anything else. I believe a good autocrosser can make the transition to hill climbing as easily, if not easier, than a pure road racer. In fact, after 15+ years of autocrossing, The very first TT event I ever ran (back when it was called SOLO I) was the final Chimney Rock Hill Climb. I had no problems, because everyone kept preaching to me to respect the hill. Meanwhile, some of my experienced friends managed to tear up their cars. I truly believe that with the right novice program, we could have a hill climb licensing process. Its so hard now to find three flat track events that I believe we are missing some potential HC competitors.

[scockrell]

Finally, a good idea has risen. Giving drivers who only wish to aspire to hill climb another avenue to reach that goal. I've had a lot of people ask me about how I got started, and most of them thought it would take to long and be to difficult. This idea might change their minds. Perhaps Friday's could be reserved for novice training. I believe that if the driver's would be willing to mentor a student, hill climbing would grow by leaps and bounds. This is worthy of a second look, after all it's up to all of us to keep level 4 healthy and growing. Sheila

[MattP]

I suggested novice program and novice licenses be allowed for hillclimbs when I was on the SEDIV TT points committee a few years ago for many of the same reasons listed above, but it did not meet with favorable responses from representatives of regions that held hillclimbs at the time. Maybe feelings have changed on this issue.

That said, the 'full license required for hillclimb in SEDIV' does illustrate that regions may specify requirements and procedures that are more stringent than those required by the national rule set...

[z3elda]

Nov 30, 2011 12:21:33 GMT -5 scockrell said:

Finally, a good idea has risen. Giving drivers who only wish to aspire to hill climb another avenue to reach that goal. I've had a lot of people ask me about how I got started, and most of them thought it would take to long and be to difficult. This idea might change their minds. Perhaps Friday's could be reserved for novice training. I believe that if the driver's would be willing to mentor a student, hill climbing would grow by leaps and bounds. This is worthy of a second look, after all it's up to all of us to keep level 4 healthy and growing. Sheila

I agree Sheila - I'd be ECSTATIC for a Novice program!! In my case - My budget will keep me off the hill for a while (at least as a driver). I want to continue building my driving skills by running lots of AX events. Laying down even more money for 3-4 PDX/TT events (and travel) in pursuit of the L4 license is an obstacle for me right now.. Plus I really need a dedicated car to Hillclimb with since I don't want to modify my Coupe anymore than I already have. (Yet more $$) I know, I know... This aint a cheap hobby.. :-)

The Little Talladega event sounds interesting, We'll see how the work schedule and budget play out.

[tedebayer]

Eric, shoot me an email.

Getting started is easier than you think and can be done more economically than you think. If you use the Second Gear Program, that covers all gear on loan for free except helmet. The term "bare bones" approach of running TT/Hillclimb under Street Prepared or Modified Class rules implies dangerous cutting corners... but it ISN'T. Bare Bones can be an autocross car with an approved 4 point "bolt in" removable roll bar, fire extinguisher, belts and seat brace. None of that is a permanent fixture and all can be removed. If the seat brace bothers you (holes in present seat), you may consider this... some guys have purchased a Kirkey seat and swap it out with the stock seat for race weekends. We have a number of drivers who have driven their cars to the hillclimb, competed and driven them home.

IF you look at levels of competition:
1. your first few events are about being there. You will not set a record and you will not burn up the course. You will learn the hill, learn the system for run groups, starting and general "hillcraft". Your speeds will likely be subdued (particularly if you are driving the car to the event or have a lot invested in your car ... ohhh... like a Z Coupe maybe.) You can stay at this level, have a load of fun and learn a lot about your car and the sport. If you are not a trophy hunter but want a challenge and some real adrenalin rush... this will do it. Like I said, it's like autocross but the pylons are wood and stone and deserve a wider margin.
2. Next level, when you are ready, you are starting to push it and will likely scare yourself once or twice... at this stage, I would say you need to accept that an accident is possible and if you continue to push at higher speeds to improve your time, there is the possibility of an accident and you should be arriving with a tow vehicle and trailer. An accident is always a possibility as this is a dangerous sport... one reason I love the Dragon Hillclimb is that well constructed guards rails line the course (except for one short spot which I hope that will be fixed in time for Spring event). Hitting a guard rail may spin you but you are not leaving the course, your damage will most likely be a fender bent and your speed is not that found on many Track Trial PDX or Club Trial...Cory Friedman's King of the Hill winning time in his Porsche 997 GT# Cup car was at an average of 75.3 miles per hour.
The Third level ... I would say if you are driving at that level pursuing course records, you have accepted the danger and are willing to push hard enough that you may lose your car. The vast majority of incidents we have are at this level with drivers who push too hard for changing conditions or surface or car capability. These are talented drivers that have been doing this a while, know the risks, have the car that is built for this and have the skills to handle it. No matter how skilled you are, it can happen to any one at any time from a Bowland or an Ezelius to an upside down Theodore.

So... bottom line is that your biggest danger starting off is over estimating your car and driving abilities and pushing yourself to Level 2 or 3 before you are ready. There is a progression and you should move up no faster than you are ready. IF you like Level 1, you can stay there from now on and have a blast. I like Level 3 and run Specials... and at some point when I'm old and gray (Ohhhh crap.. I already am!) I plan on throttling back to production cars with a bit more crunch metal around me and enjoying Level 2 and Level 1. Once you start, you will find... the pleasure is in running... the competition, trophies and adrenalin rush are all great but the fun is being a part of this circus we call hillclimb... whatever Level you run. Our drivers, staff and corner workers are a great bunch of guys and gals... and the fun factor is AWESOME. Spectators really do add a lot to the atmosphere of the event... and the kid you sign an autograph for today may be kicking your butt on a mountain in the not too distant future.

Once you make the commitment to do it, you'll be amazed how quickly things begin to fall into place. You'll be on a hill behind a wheel wondering how that happened... Someday is not that far away once you make a commitment.

[markt]

I stand to be corrected but, I think you can still run a stock seat without brace as long as you have a 5-pt harness. The "single piece seat" is merely a recommendation...not to be confused with a "mandate". Again, unless the regs changed in the last year or two that should still be the minimum

[tirewarmer]

Nov 28, 2011 21:47:02 GMT -5 tedebayer said:

Several drivers have asked who is leading our SEDIV Time Trial Program.

Joe Oliveira was appointed by TTAC as the SEDIV Time Trial Advisory Council Representative and our SEDIV Time Trial Program Manager.

I'll expand on Ted's description of the appointment process a bit. Mark Rothermel was SEDiv's prior representative to the TTAC. Mark expressed his desire to step down from the position to the SEDiv TT Championship Points Committee. As the South Carolina Region representative to the SEDiv TT Points Committee, I expressed my interest in putting my name in for consideration for the TTAC position.

Mark and I both attended the SEDiv 2010 midyear meeting where Mark presented his intention to have me succeed him in the TTAC representative position to the RE's and everyone present. There were no objections. I then submitted a resume to the TTAC. The resume that I submitted to the TTAC was then approved by the TTAC and forwarded to the SCCA National Board of Directors.

The BoD unanimously appointed me as the SEDiv TTAC Representative. This is the same process that is utilized for approval of members of both the CRB (Club Racing Board) and the SEB (SOLO Events Board). The BoD has two directors from SEDiv, Philip Creighton for Area 12 and Robin Langlotz for Area 3. These BoD members that are elected by the membership in each area. The BoD appoints all members of the CRB, SEB, and of the TTAC.

I've had a few drivers contact me about what information was passed on to the SEDiv Time Trials Championship Points Committee representatives regarding this proposed passing rule change. I'll share that here so that everyone may be in the loop, not just those that have asked. This proposed passing rule change was discussed on the October TTAC conference call. On October 21st I shared the following about the proposed passing rule change with the SEDiv TT Points Committee:

tirewarmer said:

Fri Oct 21, 2011, 10:04AM

8. Dave Deborde further discussed the differentiation of Level 2 and 3. Since most of the TTAC group during the prior discussion agreed that most tracks would be suitable for both levels 2 and 3, that he though that open passing should be allowed in level 3 only. His rationale was that the driver and vehicle safety gear for level 3 is already as close as you can get to that of Club Racing.

I initially told Dave that from the past response of SEDiv on open passing that I would be voting against this if it went to vote. There was no vote or proposal made. Also, I made clear to everyone on the call that even if open passing was allowed on a national level, that each Division and Region could chose to limit passing as they see fit, much like we limit Novices from hillclimb in SEDiv.

I would like feedback on this item also. This can't go to a vote until the next meeting in November. This would give another carrot for those in level 2 to jump to level 3, along with being able to participate in hillclimbs, if we think that this is a good idea.

George and I had a brief discussion about opening up of passing rules, and he had a very similar question to what most people have when this is brought up, "How is this any different than racing?"

I've run with other clubs that use this format as everyone knows. Some of the reasons that this does not become racing were discussed on the call.

For clarification, since these notes did not make it into the November Issue Fastrack as they were supposed to, the passing proposal was not addressed by the TTAC at the November meeting since member comment had not yet been solicited.

As everyone has probably noticed, TTAC meeting minutes were not usually included in Fastrack before this year. Additionally, member comment was not usually solicited by the TTAC. After I joined the TTAC, I met with one of our Club Racing Managers at the SCCA National Convention and asked her if there were any areas that needing improvement regarding the TTAC. She specifically brought up the lack of a presence in Fastrack each month and the lack of soliciting member comment for certain rules items that require feedback, such as this one regarding passing, by the TTAC in the past. I've made an effort to have minutes from every meeting included in Fastrack, and to have changes that require member input to have that input solicited before any recommendations are made to the BoD.

For those that don't know, the National SCCA Board of Directors are the only group that can make rules changes, other than errors, omissions, or clarifications that don't change the intent of a rule, for our club. The SEB, CRB, and the TTAC can only make recommendations to the BoD. The BoD then has to approve these recommendations.

As Craig wrote previously, SEDiv only has one vote on the TTAC. So this change may go through depending on the other 8 votes of the TTAC members.

Even if the TTAC does move to recommend this rule change, the BoD is still required to approve the change. Philip Creighton, who is our Area 12 (SEDiv outside of Florida) Director is also the BoD Liaison to the TTAC. As I have informed the SEDiv TT Points Committee Representatives, every one of these emails that are being submitted to [e-mail] are being copied to Phil also. If this proposal makes it through the TTAC, we still have Phil to make the argument to the BoD that this change does not represent the best interest of SEDiv. Phil's email, [e-mail] , as well as emails for all of the BoD members are listed on the SCCA website.

If anyone would like to contact me directly regarding any Time Trial program issues, I'm always available via email at [e-mail] or on my cell at 8O3-319-77O2.

[hrk]

Dec 2, 2011 11:46:37 GMT -5 tirewarmer said:

My thoughts exactly.

I might be going against the grain here, but there should be a level, where passing should be allowed anywhere, with point by. This would reduce the lines and allows more clear laps for everyone.

Heikki (going to TT session with 51 others with open passing tomorrow...)

[highwayracer]

Yes, but the proposal says nothing about passing with a point, it merely states open passing. HUGE difference. Point by indicates that the driver being overtaken knows he is being passed.

[tedebayer]

Many thanks to all who have written TTAC and our BOD to express their opinion on the "Open Passing without Point By" issue. The idea for this was NOT driven by the drivers in our Level 3 program and the message sent back has been a very strong one that they do not want it. I am very pleased that the Time Trial drivers stood up and made their voice heard and I am confident this will not be approved. We do not wish to lose any drivers at a time where we are in a growth mode! This is YOUR program and we want you to enjoy it.

This is the first time this year a topic was put out for input from drivers that I am aware of. I hope that in the future TTAC will have an agenda where preparations can be made and Joe can gather the input from our members before he is pressed to vote on our behalf. This will insure that what happens at TTAC will be a true representation of our opinions and arguments for or against and will come from those directly affected... more heads giving input will make a better well thought out case. From event organizers to Regional reps to the National Board of Directors, we are here to serve our members needs... that is why they elected us.

[George Bugg]

I add my thanks to those expressed by Ted. This is the way it is supposed to work. Hopefully the majority voice will prevail. But keep in mind that SEDiv only gets one vote. I think, no I KNOW, Joe will vote based on the input he's received.

And to Joe's credit - he pushed for the TTAC to post this proposal for comment prior to an official vote. The only way Joe can represent us - the Time Trials community in the SEDiv - is for us to tell him how we feel. As Ted said, I hope Joe will be provided with an agenda in advance next time. But if he isn't, I know he'll push for the same opportunity to gather input before voting on anything "big". THANKS JOE! And thanks Ted, and the Time Trials drivers!!

It's time to focus on getting those cars ready for next season!!

[tirewarmer]

I have an update for everyone on the December TTAC call. You will not be seeing this officially until the published in January, February edition of Fastrack, since there is a one month lag time from the meeting to the publishing due to the Fastrack deadline basically falling at the time of the TTAC call.

After much discussion, there was a motion made to leave the passing rules as they presently are. The motion also included looking at the present wording in an attempt to clarify what is already there. The motion passed unanimously. The passing rules will not change.

I thank everyone for their input on this issue. More than 90% of the feedback received was from SEDiv.

[tedebayer]

Thanks for the update Joe. I am sure our drivers are relieved to hear this news.
There was also an TTAC agenda item on Head and Neck Restraint ... can you tell us what the issue was and what was the nature of the discussion. Thanks for your help and for the information.

[tirewarmer]

Dec 22, 2011 18:34:13 GMT -5 tedebayer said:

Thanks for the update Joe. I am sure our drivers are relieved to hear this news.
There was also an TTAC agenda item on Head and Neck Restraint ... can you tell us what the issue was and what was the nature of the discussion. Thanks for your help and for the information.

The Head and Neck Restraint item was old business going back to the statement that the TTAC made that Head and Neck restraints are not required in Time Trials. There was no new input on Head and Neck restraints for Time Trials, and the item was removed from the agenda for future TTAC meetings.

[tedebayer]

THANKS ... appreciate the updates!