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Post by yellow CR on Jul 11, 2013 17:16:46 GMT -5
Here are some pics of crappy numbers and what your numbers shouldn't look like. And since the tech box has white, green and blue tape for you to use, this is unacceptable. Tape is perfectly fine as long as you aren't lazy like cASSino and take some time to do it right. Cuz' if you don't Chris Ross and the NPF (Number Police Force) will be coming for you!  This number way too small and class slightly too small. They are poorly space and white tape should be used.  Nothing is good here. Too small, poorly spaced and no contrast.  The numbers are great, but the class is too big, it's poorly spaced and has no contrast.  The contrast is good, But the numbers are too small and they should be spaced side by side, not on top. Will not be readable from 100+ft away.  The contrast is good, but the class is too big and the spacing is very bad.  This car has poor contrast, and the class is too big and poorly spaced.  Here the class is too big, the numbers are too small and has no contrast.  This has very bad contrast and the class is too big.  This is poor spacing, the class is too big and the contrast is very bad.  SOOO CLOSE! But this car has bad contrast. This car needs blue tape. And here are my 2 favorites. Really? Do you think this is alright? Really? Looks like Kuhn teched these.   Thanks Bryan for the pics. |
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Post by cr89x on Jul 11, 2013 18:49:38 GMT -5
Bryan Hayes went off the deep end in case no one knew. Much like Duckles did last night. GET THESE FIXED please!!!!
Please post some good examples please! I know you just copied from Bryan.
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Post by lancer360 on Jul 11, 2013 19:51:45 GMT -5
Here is a photo of my car with tape numbers. This is pretty close to what we expect to see if you use tape numbers except I should have used the wider tape for the numbers and saved the narrow tape for the class letters. This is what I will be looking for at the next autocross 1. Numbers are large (8" minimum), but still proportionate to the width of the tape. Use 1.5" or 2" tape for the numbers (2013 Solo Rules 3.7.E) 2. Class is about half the size of the numbers (4" minimum, 25% to 75% the height of the numbers). Use 1" tape for the class. (2013 Solo Rules 3.7.E) 3. Color is highly contrasting. (2013 Solo Rules 3.7.D) 4. Tape numbers and class are constructed with "digital" type font (i.e. use only vertical and horizontal pieces of tape). Do not try to invent your own font with tape numbers. This is not art class! All permanent numbers must use a legible font. If you want to get creative with your font do so at your own risk. If it can't be read in one quick glance at 50 ft at 50 mph don't use it. (2013 Solo Rules 3.7.D) 5. Permanent and tape numbers and class are reasonably spaced and are in a horizontal straight line. If you need help getting them in a straight line place a long piece of tape horizontally across your car before you make your numbers and class. (2013 Solo Rules 3.7.D) 6. Highly encourage all two driver cars to use a "1" in front of the number to denote the second driver. This makes life much easier for timing and scoring to sort out accidentally forgetting to switch the numbers. 7. If making tape numbers just sounds like a PITA, then go with a single digit number and print it on a piece of paper vertically and print your class on a 2nd piece of paper horizontally. Super easy to do and VERY legible on any color car.  |
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Post by yellow CR on Jul 11, 2013 20:27:41 GMT -5
Here is another example of poor numbers, the size and spacing are great. The Carbotech dust and Metrolina filth are visible up close, but will not be able to be seen from over 100 ft away. Providing insufficient contrast needed for course workers and timing people to see.  |
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Post by frankenstook on Jul 12, 2013 15:18:03 GMT -5
Bryan Hayes went off the deep end in case no one knew. Much like Duckles did last night. GET THESE FIXED please!!!! Please post some good examples please! I know you just copied from Bryan. *I* wouldn't say that I went of the deep end, though some would disagree.  I was timing and scoring chief for over 2 years. I simply said that I'd had enough. I didn't want the extra aggravation of having to interpret what the car owner _meant_ with their numbers instead of acting on what was, oh, actually affixed to the side of the car. I, very calmly, suggested that I was wanted to start DNF'ing anyone that came to the line with unreadable or incorrect numbers/class letters, just like they do at a National event. That suggestion didn't go over very well for some reason...  If you want to self-check your numbers, get your car ready for an event. Walk away from your car door at a 45 degree angle (to the front or rear does not matter) for about 40-50 paces. Turn around and face your car. Your numbers and class letters should be immediately readable without squinting, and should not be capable of being confused for any other sequence of numbers and letters. Taking a picture of your car and reducing it to thumbnail size (~100 pixels wide) also works well. |
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Post by srduck on Jul 12, 2013 15:46:19 GMT -5
Bryan Hayes went off the deep end in case no one knew. Much like Duckles did last night. GET THESE FIXED please!!!! Please post some good examples please! I know you just copied from Bryan. *I* wouldn't say that I went of the deep end, though some would disagree. *I* went off the deep end Wednesday night, though. I was frustrated after a long day at work, had already rewired a timing light cable, had a broken display board cable that needed to be done, and was seeing cars come to the line with numbers that I couldn't read, weren't right, or didn't have class letters. At that point I said if someone pulls up and I can't read their numbers, they're just not getting a time. I won't even go through the trouble of finding the right number to DNF their runs, they'll just show up as DNS. |
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Post by frankenstook on Jul 12, 2013 16:12:58 GMT -5
At that point I said if someone pulls up and I can't read their numbers, they're just not getting a time. I won't even go through the trouble of finding the right number to DNF their runs, they'll just show up as DNS. In my opinion, this should unquestionably be the correct behavior for every run at every event. If T&S has to do any extra work to figure out who you are, barring computer/scanner error, that driver should simply not get a time. If you want a time, you should make your car readable and unmistakable for any other number/class. |
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Post by belcher on Jul 13, 2013 9:13:57 GMT -5
The rules regarding numbers are very clear so don't understand why some people have issues. As I said on the other thread that maybe SCCA needs to make numbers more "standard". If you look at pics from racing in the early years about all cars had black numbers within a white ball. Very easy to read. When I road raced AMA the number requirement went on to include color so to identify classification. At this level we don't have easily recognizable sponsors like NASCAR so legible numbers are needed. I say enforce the rule. Why should this be any different than removing all the crap from inside the car? It's not like you're making this up as you go. PS and yes mine blew off Wed. That's cause I was going like the wind.  |
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Post by 1slowcrx on Jul 13, 2013 12:07:48 GMT -5
Here's how they look when they pass National Tech....  Crappy picture but appropriate proportions and highly contrasting colors. |
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Post by n2mini on Jul 17, 2013 13:36:29 GMT -5
AC Moores has white magnet sheets in 12" x 18" and 24" x 30" and usually has a 50% off coupon in the Sunday paper.. Use it to cut out letters and numbers or use as the background rectangle ( radius the corners to keep it from lifting and flying off ) or flip over a 5 gallon bucket and cut some meatballs.. any local Fast Sign, or Sign-a-roma can cut you some vinyl letters/numbers in any color you want or contact me and I'll do it for a small fee of course...
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Post by stealthgtfour on Jul 18, 2013 18:15:48 GMT -5
Here is another example of poor numbers, the size and spacing are great. The Carbotech dust and Metrolina filth are visible up close, but will not be able to be seen from over 100 ft away. Providing insufficient contrast needed for course workers and timing people to see.  |
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Post by Backdraft on Aug 29, 2013 15:08:29 GMT -5
I thought I saw a template that you could use to print your Numbers and Class on paper.
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ein86
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by ein86 on Aug 29, 2013 15:51:02 GMT -5
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 7, 2013 13:17:22 GMT -5
Any issues with 3-digit numbers? I know adding a 1 for a 2-driver car (ex: 24 becomes 124) is good. But could I run other 3-digit numbers such as 765 or 333? (I see several examples in the 2013 results, so I assume it is okay. But I'd rather not assume.) Is the answer the same for 1-driver cars?
If a car has a number painted on it, the easy fix is to add another digit to the start or end of that number, such as turning 24 into 524 or 245. I suspect 3-digit numbers are more common than I think. I've just never thought about it. I don't see anything in the National rules that prohibits this. Okay locally too?
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Post by CoolGuy094 on Dec 7, 2013 13:53:39 GMT -5
Any issues with 3-digit numbers? I know adding a 1 for a 2-driver car (ex: 24 becomes 124) is good. But could I run other 3-digit numbers such as 765 or 333? (I see several examples in the 2013 results, so I assume it is okay. But I'd rather not assume.) Is the answer the same for 1-driver cars? If a car has a number painted on it, the easy fix is to add another digit to the start or end of that number, such as turning 24 into 524 or 245. I suspect 3-digit numbers are more common than I think. I've just never thought about it. I don't see anything in the National rules that prohibits this. Okay locally too? I've read this online; it says its from 9.3.29.A of the rule book. Numbers shall be no more than 2
digits, and shall meet the approval of the Chief of Timing and Scoring.
3 digit numbers may be used when individually approved in advance by
the Chief of Timing and Scoring.I'll let Mike or AJ or one of the timing chiefs comment further. |
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Post by PinkBimmer on Dec 7, 2013 14:07:59 GMT -5
This mostly applies to road racing with 3 digit numbers as a timing and scoring person for that as well... for auto x we have no problem with 3 digit numbers
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 7, 2013 16:44:59 GMT -5
This mostly applies to road racing with 3 digit numbers as a timing and scoring person for that as well... for auto x we have no problem with 3 digit numbers Thanks, Cyndi and Andy. As I said, I wanted to make sure the local folks were okay with this. Andy, Cyndi is right. Rule 9.3.29A is from the GCR, and applies to road-race (and probably hillclimb, though I haven't done that in a while). The autocross rules are in the Solo rule book, section 3.7. Regardless of what the book says, the staff at local events have quite a bit of latitude, so I wanted to make sure those of you in-the-know were good with three-digits. I didn't want to run into some weird problem like a scoring system that wouldn't handle a third digit. Thanks again for the guidance. |
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Post by stealthgtfour on Dec 8, 2013 10:34:13 GMT -5
Any issues with 3-digit numbers? I know adding a 1 for a 2-driver car (ex: 24 becomes 124) is good. But could I run other 3-digit numbers such as 765 or 333? (I see several examples in the 2013 results, so I assume it is okay. But I'd rather not assume.) Is the answer the same for 1-driver cars? If a car has a number painted on it, the easy fix is to add another digit to the start or end of that number, such as turning 24 into 524 or 245. I suspect 3-digit numbers are more common than I think. I've just never thought about it. I don't see anything in the National rules that prohibits this. Okay locally too? I've read this online; it says its from 9.3.29.A of the rule book. Numbers shall be no more than 2
digits, and shall meet the approval of the Chief of Timing and Scoring.
3 digit numbers may be used when individually approved in advance by
the Chief of Timing and Scoring.I'll let Mike or AJ or one of the timing chiefs comment further. we are going to work with registration and enforce this rule going forward. as long as we are all on the same page then this should no longer be a problem in the coming season. the system the scca has works well and will be used from now on. |
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 8, 2013 13:39:32 GMT -5
I've read this online; it says its from 9.3.29.A of the rule book. Numbers shall be no more than 2
digits, and shall meet the approval of the Chief of Timing and Scoring.
3 digit numbers may be used when individually approved in advance by
the Chief of Timing and Scoring.I'll let Mike or AJ or one of the timing chiefs comment further. we are going to work with registration and enforce this rule going forward. as long as we are all on the same page then this should no longer be a problem in the coming season. the system the scca has works well and will be used from now on. Mark: Please clarify. Did you mean we would continue to enforce 3.7 from the Solo rule book, or that we would now be using Rule 9.3.29A from the GCR? Rule 9.3.29A is from the GCR, which applies to road-race. The GCR does not apply to autocross except where specifically referenced. The autocross rules are in the Solo rule book. Vehicle identification for autocross is covered in section 3.7 of the autocross rule book. (Notice, for example, 9.3.29 also required numbers on the front of the car, and lists the road-race classes instead of Solo classes.) We have two cars in XP that normally run #42, with each car often running as a 2-driver car. That quickly leads to numbers 42 and 142 being used. One of the drivers would like to use 242 or 342 or a similar number instead of re-painting the numbers already on the car. It seems like a reasonable request to me, provided the numbers meet the requirements of autocross rule 3.7. I don't see anything in 3.7 that prohibits numbers with 3 digits, hence the request for clarification. |
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Post by stealthgtfour on Dec 8, 2013 14:53:10 GMT -5
1-99 with a 1 denoting a 2 driver car's 2nd driver. in the event that two cars share the same number
then I would suggest use a piece of tape to strike through one of the digits in the permanent number.
so 42 and 142 would become 4 and 14 or 2 and 12. simple enough I think. easy to remember and implement.
I would also suggest the two car owners have an agreement ahead of time if
this will happen to register accordingly
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Post by mr2aw16 on Jan 22, 2014 13:15:52 GMT -5
Just a quick suggestion: I buy the 11" x 14" magnetic sheets at AC Moore craft store. They do 50% off coupons on a regular basis, making each sheet about $ 5.00. 2-3 sheets will make large numbers and class letters easily. I am on the 3rd year with current ones. It's cheap. The material cuts easily with scissors. You can even spray paint them to get the needed contrast.
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Post by recaryob1 on Feb 27, 2014 11:13:36 GMT -5
So its been a while since I have participated in an autocross and I have a question about the class lettering. If I am running a Pax class like Pro. What should my class lettering look like? If I was running DSP in the pro class should my lettering be PDSP or DSPP or just DSP? I appreciate any assistance.
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Post by PinkBimmer on Feb 27, 2014 12:40:49 GMT -5
Yes itll be p dsp..the pro p comes first
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Post by W. Dean Furr on May 10, 2015 10:30:36 GMT -5
Time for a bump on this subject. See rule 3.7. The MINIMUM size for numbers is 8-inch, with a 1.25 stroke width, on a contrasting background. Keep in mind we are trying to read numbers on a car going 60-mph, sometimes 300 feet away by the time they hit the cone. I missed several numbers yesterday. I try to read the number and class as the car goes by, just in case. But it is not uncommon for there to be distractions on course such as getting cones right-side-up. Notice the Pro drivers generally have numbers much larger than the minimum. Bigger isn't always better, but I suspect most folks can appreciate the difference between six inches and eight inches, even if they won't admit it.
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