CCR A-X improvements?

[lagunamiata]

Alright, what can CCR do better at the next event? We have until May 13, so hopefully we can get some good ideas and have some of them in place.

[lagunamiata]

I'll start... run printouts like SCR uses. After each run you get a printout (like a cash register receipt) with your run time and some other info.

I've posted a question on the SCR forum as to what kind of information they put on the printouts.

Anyone know if CCRs system can do the same thing?

[MattP]

The SCR Printout has time, #cones, difference in time from first in your class, difference in time from your best run.

(not 100% sure on the last one)

[jbyrd]

Post results sooner - like Steven used to do.

It's frustrating to put as much effort into something as we put into autocrossing, and not be able to see the results.

I'm sensing frustration from a lot of new people now.

I'm not suggesting that Steven do it, rather that someone needs to. Steven has enough to do already.

There are requests for volunteers made all the time. Let's see if someone is willing to do the posts on the night of an event (or the next day), and see if the "powers that be" will even accept a voluteer for that position.

Let's just see how serious CCR is about our Solo program from a management standpoint.

[jbyrd]

Form an autocross committee.

SCR has an autocross committee of about a dozen or so regular autocross members. For each event, members of that autocross committee will voluteer for Key positions which need to be filled. When the event morning comes, they are ready to roll.

This keeps the Solo Chairman (Nick Hallman) and his assistant (Garrett Molzer) from having to scramble at the last minute to get things done.

Typical positions for volunteers include Event Chairman, Course Design, SSS, Tech, Waiver Table (early), Course Setup, Course Teardown, etc.

You may have huge responsibilties for the next event, but for the following autox you may be able to "kick back" and enjoy.

This successfully spreads the workload and prevents a lot of burn-out.

Only serious autocrosser need to apply. This committee can't be successfull by "raise your hand at the next meeting" appointments.

[jbyrd]

Waiver Table.

The way we handle waivers is atrocious.

You can walk around all day at Knights, look for armbands, and do nothing else all day except send people to the wavier table.

[jbyrd]

Sights.

We all - me included - need to make an effort to find more sights.

We need to be educated in how to approach prospective site owners/managers, and what reponsibilites we have as an organization in being good stewards of their properties.

One of the great things about some of our neighboring clubs is that you will very rarely see the same venue more than twice in one year.

I know this is tough, but we need to really hit this one hard.

One person can't do it. It will take all of us.

[MattP]

jbyrd said:

Waiver Table.

The way we handle waivers is atrocious.

You can walk around all day at Knights, look for armbands, and do nothing else all day except send people to the wavier table.

Agreed, you would only find it and sign if you knew you had to.


I don't know if it's anything you could do without bogging down tech, but cut down on the number of cars in stock classes (including some class winners) running non-stock size wheels. I know I saw a lot that were an inch or two larger in diameter, and an inch or three wider.

[jbyrd]

Focus on what we do well.

There's a lot about CCR that can not be dismissed regarding our Quality.

1. Steven Rankins - enough said.
2. Mark Seiler (and Sue) - Can anyone do any more?
3. Shane & Colin Findland - Ever hear any complaints about doing the same job over and over.
4. Bill Crummett - Work on your SSS license and help him out. He and Joey have born the brunt of being SSS for way too long.
5. I am going to stop naming names because I can't get them all in one post, but we know who they are.
Rich; Rob F.; Ed B.; Per Olof (watch him walk around on Autox morings sweeping the course with a broom); Geoff Z; I'll quit now.

Let's just say some people do too much while others do nothing.

If we all work, the load will be spread out to the point it will take less effort to accomplish.

[jbyrd]

mattp said:

jbyrd said:

Waiver Table.

The way we handle waivers is atrocious.

You can walk around all day at Knights, look for armbands, and do nothing else all day except send people to the wavier table.

Agreed, you would only find it and sign if you knew you had to.


I don't know if it's anything you could do without bogging down tech, but cut down on the number of cars in stock classes (including some class winners) running non-stock size wheels. I know I saw a lot that were an inch or two larger in diameter, and an inch or three wider.

Car classifiction is not Tech's responsibility. That burden is born by the participant. If we see that happening, we should not be bashful in informing that person of what we see.

[jbyrd]

Novice Committee.

Just as sure as we are successfull in attracting new people to our sport (and indeed, this past weekend was an example of just how successful we are), we seem to lose them just as fast.

In every event, there seems to be a novice who wins a trophy, but left the event early (out of frustration), because he/she did not understand that he/she had actually done pretty darn well.

This will take a lot of hand-holding on veteran's part, and we talk a lot about helping novices.

We do help novices, but we stop short - somewhere along the way.

At least, any novice who enters online should recieve a thank you email, and if possible, a personal note about how he/she performed.

Any voluteers on this one? Where would we get the email addresses?

[MattP]

jbyrd said:

Car classifiction is not Tech's responsibility. That burden is born by the participant. If we see that happening, we should not be bashful in informing that person of what we see.

Yep, I know it's not tech's (or CCR's for that matter) responsibility. I would have said something to someone had they been in my class, but that wasn't the case.

[prancingdawg]

HAve a welcome committee comprised of scantilly clad wimmenses on site and posted at the entrance to have people sign the waiver and give out the armband then and there, like Triad does( only they left out the scantilly clad wimmenses part)

[ROADBOY]

I hear what ur sayin matt. But it may be worth that 1 or 2 min to stop and mention it too them. They may not know the rules that well or they could be hopeing nobody notices. Either way if you know the rules we should all play our part in helping eachother workout car classing.

[ROADBOY]

By the way Matt, great looking crx. I love the 1st generation crx si wheels. You did a great job cleaning those up.

[ROADBOY]

prancingdawg said:

HAve a welcome committee comprised of scantilly clad wimmenses on site and posted at the entrance to have people sign the waiver and give out the armband then and there, like Triad does( only they left out the scantilly clad wimmenses part)

That sounds like a really good idea.

[Racer X]

Ok, when I read thru this thread I see a common theme that seems to present a challenge to CCR, COMMUNICATION. We don't communicate to the novices what is expected of them, we don't communicate to everyone the need to sign the wavier, we don't communicate run results, we don't communicate to the drivers the proper way to line up in the grid and so on....

Here is my suggestion, this is a very simple, inexpensive and effective technique used by many manufacturing operations who practice the lean philosiphy. It is called Visual Managment. This is simply a board or an easle or a big sign that clearly communicates what is expected of every participant and guest.

Example, get a big sign and set it next in a highly visible location, it says
"Wecolme to CCR event # blah, blah, blah
Step #1 - ALL participants and guest MUST sign the wavier and obtain an armband....
Step #2 - Registration, all participants must ........blah, blah, blah
Step #3 - Tech.....and so on

Along with this sign you have another sign or board that clearly says, "Run times will be posted here after each run group" also make a place for "here are the run groups for todays event"

The same thing could be done for the grid area, put up a sigh that clearly communicates how the drivers should behave and what is expected of them in the grid, example
- single dirver cars on the left, two car drivers on the right...
- line up side by side facing this way...
- always return to same spot you left from to keep the order the same...
- don't move onto the course until the grid worker instucts you to do so....

I hope you guys get my point and the point is to set up a visual communication board that is so clear and obvious that any stranger (that can read english) could walk up and with in 10 seconds understand exactly what to do.

[lagunamiata]

jbyrd said:

Waiver Table.

The way we handle waivers is atrocious.

You can walk around all day at Knights, look for armbands, and do nothing else all day except send people to the wavier table.

AGREED!!
When SCR came to Knights one worker position was at the entrance to the parking lot, getting a waiver signed before someone was even allowed on the property. Yes it probably caused a backup down the road, but better than not having a waiver signed and having people wander around.

[lagunamiata]

jbyrd said:

Focus on what we do well.
3. Shane & Colin Findland - Ever hear any complaints about doing the same job over and over.

No kidding! The event Sunday ran so smoothly! Big kudos to Shane for getting the workers to their places and no lag! Great job Shane!!
As PDawg said, no duh time when cars weren't running between groups. Heck, on my last run a car from the next group was in line behind me!!

[lagunamiata]

Racer said:

I hope you guys get my point and the point is to set up a visual communication board that is so clear and obvious that any stranger (that can read english) could walk up and with in 10 seconds understand exactly what to do.

I like the ideas!
Grid needs to say something like "GRID - PARTICIPANTS ONLY BEYOND THIS POINT"
There was an Asain family with a little kid walking down the grid on Sunday. Unfortunately I was in the car and couldn't say anything to them.

[Ed Fesmire]

From a novice’s point of view, it was great fun. It was my first autocross event. I had a blast. For the most part the day went well. I know there were a lot of novices and just a butt load of people in general but here are the areas that I saw that had room for improvement.
School was great. If not for the Saturday session, I would have been lost on Sunday. I talked to several people that tried to register after the class was full. Maybe 2 schools a year are in order.
People didn’t know where to go, what to do first. I directed several people to the Registration desk and told several others that they needed to register before going through the car inspection. Maybe some signage would help.
Car class confusion. Is there a way to confirm or make car class designations during the inspection? I had people telling me I was in the wrong class while I was sitting on the grid. If my car had been officially looked at and deemed in the correct class, I would have felt better about it.
Timing results confusion. After the results were out, there were more than a few people asking what it all meant? And the answers that were given were not clear.
Grid area confusion. Some cars had been out 2 times before others had been out once. Again this could have been due to just the pure number of attendees to the event and the fact that novices were trying to direct cars in and out.
Maybe the “people in charge” or instructors wear specific, identifiable shirts so they can be picked out of the crowd in case of confusion or if answers to questions are needed.
Thanks for a fun day.
Ed Fesmire

[jbyrd]

Ed Fesmire Wrote:
From a novice’s point of view, it was great fun. It was my first autocross event. I had a blast. For the most part the day went well. I know there were a lot of novices and just a butt load of people in general but here are the areas that I saw that had room for improvement. Thank you.

School was great. If not for the Saturday session, I would have been lost on Sunday. Good input I talked to several people that tried to register after the class was full. Maybe 2 schools a year are in order. Maybe so
People didn’t know where to go, what to do first. I directed several people to the Registration desk and told several others that they needed to register before going through the car inspection. Maybe some signage would help. Some signage may indeed be helpful, but I have seen events that got "bogged down" in signage, and the logistics of transporting signs can even be a problem.
Car class confusion. Is there a way to confirm or make car class designations during the inspection? Tech already has enough to do. I had people telling me I was in the wrong class while I was sitting on the grid. If my car had been officially looked at and deemed in the correct class, I would have felt better about it. It is the responsibility of each competitor to class his/her car. If you have questions about this, ask on this board, or ask someone at the event. Most people will try very hard to help you, and the information is readily available at scca.com
Timing results confusion. After the results were out, there were more than a few people asking what it all meant? And the answers that were given were not clear.I thought the timing conventions were discussed pretty well in this forum before the event (PAX/RTP), but apparently there were a lot of people there whom did not get the message.
Grid area confusion. Some cars had been out 2 times before others had been out once. You were probably seing multi-driver cars. I did not see this happening in my run group (2nd) nor in the last group where I worked the grid. If the grids and run order had been out of control, I can promise you the event would not have been finished before nightfall Again this could have been due to just the pure number of attendees to the event and the fact that novices were trying to direct cars in and out.
Maybe the “people in charge” or instructors wear specific, identifiable shirts so they can be picked out of the crowd in case of confusion or if answers to questions are needed. That's not a bad idea. SCR has simply started putting out name stickers. If you are a vet and want to assist others, you simply write you name on one and stick it on you shirt. Then new people know who the ask questions of.
Thanks for a fun day.
Ed Fesmire Again, Thank you for coming, and for your input

[jbyrd]

lagunamiata said:

jbyrd said:

Waiver Table.

The way we handle waivers is atrocious.

You can walk around all day at Knights, look for armbands, and do nothing else all day except send people to the wavier table.

AGREED!!
When SCR came to Knights one worker position was at the entrance to the parking lot, getting a waiver signed before someone was even allowed on the property. Yes it probably caused a backup down the road, but better than not having a waiver signed and having people wander around.

And that IS THE answer.

But this will take committment on our part. It will require an assigned early moring waiver person, as well as one for each run group.

And this will require someone who knows what he/she is doing.

This is/will be very important, as this is the first face someone will see when visiting one of our events.

Remember also, the SCCA and the insurance provider which make our sport possible demand that we do this.

BTW - the line entering the SCR event did not get long, and having worked the waiver table at many SCR events, I have never seen this be a problem - people "trickle" into an event typically.

[971nt3gr4]

CCR might want to set up a place for spectators to park because when i came back from grid some car was parked in my spot and almost ran over my stuff but some of it was my fault for not securing my spot.

[jbyrd]

Racer said:

Ok, when I read thru this thread I see a common theme that seems to present a challenge to CCR, COMMUNICATION. We don't communicate to the novices what is expected of them, we don't communicate to everyone the need to sign the wavier, we don't communicate run results, we don't communicate to the drivers the proper way to line up in the grid and so on....

Here is my suggestion, this is a very simple, inexpensive and effective technique used by many manufacturing operations who practice the lean philosiphy. It is called Visual Managment. This is simply a board or an easle or a big sign that clearly communicates what is expected of every participant and guest.

Example, get a big sign and set it next in a highly visible location, it says
"Wecolme to CCR event # blah, blah, blah
Step #1 - ALL participants and guest MUST sign the wavier and obtain an armband....
Step #2 - Registration, all participants must ........blah, blah, blah
Step #3 - Tech.....and so on

Along with this sign you have another sign or board that clearly says, "Run times will be posted here after each run group" also make a place for "here are the run groups for todays event"

The same thing could be done for the grid area, put up a sigh that clearly communicates how the drivers should behave and what is expected of them in the grid, example
- single dirver cars on the left, two car drivers on the right...
- line up side by side facing this way...
- always return to same spot you left from to keep the order the same...
- don't move onto the course until the grid worker instucts you to do so....

I hope you guys get my point and the point is to set up a visual communication board that is so clear and obvious that any stranger (that can read english) could walk up and with in 10 seconds understand exactly what to do.

Well stated, RacerX. If you go ahead and join this board, I will give you an "exalt" for that one.

[C4Shane]

Ed Fesmire Wrote:

People didn’t know where to go, what to do first. I directed several people to the Registration desk and told several others that they needed to register before going through the car inspection. Maybe some signage would help. Some signage may indeed be helpful - Signage has been mentioned a couple of times and that would help with a number of issues.
Car class confusion. Is there a way to confirm or make car class designations during the inspection? Tech already has enough to do. I had people telling me I was in the wrong class while I was sitting on the grid. If my car had been officially looked at and deemed in the correct class, I would have felt better about it. It is the responsibility of each competitor to class his/her car. If you have questions about this, ask on this board, or ask someone at the event. Most people will try very hard to help you, and the information is readily available at scca.com Unfortunately, Tech is very overloaded early in the year and there is simply no time to do much more than assist in basic classification. Some of the rules are a bit confusing.
Timing results confusion. After the results were out, there were more than a few people asking what it all meant? And the answers that were given were not clear.I thought the timing conventions were discussed pretty well in this forum before the event (PAX/RTP), but apparently there were a lot of people there whom did not get the message. Sadly, not everyone checks out the forums and even then the PAX index may not be very clear.
Grid area confusion. Some cars had been out 2 times before others had been out once. You were probably seing multi-driver cars. I did not see this happening in my run group (2nd) nor in the last group where I worked the grid. If the grids and run order had been out of control, I can promise you the event would not have been finished before nightfall Again this could have been due to just the pure number of attendees to the event and the fact that novices were trying to direct cars in and out. Thanks for the comment - we may have had a little difficulty for one group, where we piled a bunch of novices onto work assignments - but grid was one area we always try to have experience, since your cars sheetmetal may depend on it.
Maybe the “people in charge” or instructors wear specific, identifiable shirts so they can be picked out of the crowd in case of confusion or if answers to questions are needed. That's not a bad idea. SCR has simply started putting out name stickers. If you are a vet and want to assist others, you simply write you name on one and stick it on you shirt. Then new people know who the ask questions of. I think that is a great idea - Perhaps we could borrow some char-meck utility vests - or use stickers if that is easier.
Thanks for a fun day.
Ed Fesmire Again, Thank you for coming, and for your input

Ed, thanks for the thoughtful comments. We want folks like you to leave excited and looking forward to the next event.

[C4Shane]

Ok - few more thoughts. First - I think some clear signage would really help. I like the idea of a sign that tells folks what they need to do on arrival. #1 sign waiver, #2 register, #3 tech car, #4 buy hot dog/shirt to support signage.....etc.

Another is a "waiver" person at the front of the parking lot. We (me?) need to have a volunteer prior to the event, who can be there very early. Also, there should be some signage "restricted area" to identify to the casual passerby that this is not a "drop in and watch the fun" event. I went to a couple of folks who simply drove in and decided to watch for a few minutes.

I also like the idea of a sign stating that the Grid is for participants and workers only!
KEEP OFF OF THE GRASSY KNOLLS/BANKS if marked! We had a water bottle football game going at one point on the grid - I would hate to think what a water bottle would have done to my Fiesta (washed it!) but the guy with the spiffy Factory five probably woulda had a fit. (sorry, just a momentary lapse into B@#$h mode)...We had to assign one worker the job of just chasing folks off the banks.

Common Sense? Anybody know where we can get some???

Also, we have had a great weekend. And, a lot of novices wanted to know when the next event is going to be held. Quite a few were probably disappointed to hear it will be 2 months down the road. Next time, if we can, let's schedule the novice school where we will have at least one more event within the month. Keeps the excitement up!

In the words of the late, great Woody Hayes - It isn't theft to copy good ideas from the enemy...so, not that HSCC is the enemy, but I really liked their "cone board" last year at Maggie Valley. Makes it easy for the work stewards to explain the fine art of "coning" to a noobie. Guess I will make one of those!

As a final comment, and it reflects many from above. If you read the first page (that I can't ever seem to get back to) for www.ccrscca.com, you will notice that it states this is a volunteer organization. I have had the pleasure of being involved in a number of them - MS Society, community theatre, etc. They all have one universal constant ~ "They"! "They" is who you refer to when stating that "They need to fix this, or do that..." Well, we are all volunteers - so "they" is us. I like the idea of an autocross committee, and would be happy to assist in putting it together - I would be honored to be a member, and would suggest that we grab a couple of interested novices to provide their insights (and throw them off when they act like we do!!).

To all - it is a pleasure to spend time with many fine people - but I still prefer the cars!~ LOL.

This is a really good, positive thread!

[grok]

Novices and Car Class confusion. It would have relaxed me a little more had I been automatically told I would be a novice, instead of 20 different people suggesting which class I should be in.

The first time out, it just doesn't matter what class I am in. Put me in Novice, dont discuss car classes unless I come back a second time! If you must, go ahead and index my time based on what you know about my car. Don't bog me down with stuff like that, my mind is on 100 other details like how to drive as the instructors are teaching.

</2cents>

[prancingdawg]

WHAT IS A GROK, ANYWAY?

[prancingdawg]

dMan caps key, aRrgh...