CMP

[ffhillclimber]

As a old or better yet veteran autocrosser who also enjoys hillclimbs and track trials, I was wondering how ya'll feel about the new SCCA Time Trial program. With the 4 levels of participation I was hoping that it would make it easier for autocrossers to transition to the Time Trial program. The fact that CCR is having trouble filling the Level 1 PDE event at CMP seems to indicate otherwise. Does everyone understand that the PDE are open to normal street cars and autocross classes without the need for roll bars and driver's suits? It seems that NASA and the marque clubs have no trouble filling their high performance drivers schools. What do ya'll see as the problem? (lack of promotion, not understanding the SCCA TT rules and levels, or cost, which seem to be in line with other groups.)

[ROADBOY]

I personaly am planning to attend the PDE. The problems I've been having are a little more on the personal side.

I.E. money, car prep, and a few unanswered questions.

The first question I have is the race tires I have for my car. I have Hankook F200 race slicks, and have run in the modified class due to the fact they aren't DOT approved. Looking through the TT rules I can't find the answer. These are race tires, I don't see why I couldn't use them on a race coarse.

Another question is tech. Everyone I've asked about tech says it is just to check your car for safety. If that is so, why can't I do that myself. I'm a certified technician and work at a shop everyday.

Another is payment. I heard somthing of a paypal account being set up to make registration easier. That would be great, is it set up?

I have been workin alot lately and don't have much time to sit at the computer and resurch this information. Any help with these issues would be great.

I've allways dreamed of driving on a full race track. I just want to go driving and have fun.

[C4Shane]

ffhillclimber said:

. Does everyone understand that the PDE are open to normal street cars and autocross classes without the need for roll bars and driver's suits? What do ya'll see as the problem? (lack of promotion, not understanding the SCCA TT rules and levels, or cost, which seem to be in line with other groups.)

This has been discussed in the Solo trials forum, and I think that a lot of AX'ers do not realize that they can still "run what ya brung". I see the lack of info as the primary problem. First - the principal method of getting the word out is via the forum, which is now on a new server and a lot of folks have lost track of it. Second- Not everyone goes to the forums/webpage anyways and another method of promotion would probably be helpful. Another issue is that the members have to dig for a lot of the info on TT rules themselves (not that they shouldn't, but many don't). When I downloaded them from scca.org, it was clear that all but prepared & modified cars were eligible to run.

There is an issue for some of us - like roadboy discusses above - that the TT rules exclude the use of cars on race tires, unless they meet GCR requirements. The TT rules do exclude prepared and modified cars, which does leave out some of us (me included). I am familiar with Roadboy's car and other than being on race tires, his car is perfectly street legal. So for him the only question is the ability to use his current race tires. If that is allowed - I'm in the same boat as one of my prepared cars is a Camaro (perfectly street legal) on race tires.

I have run at CMP the last two years and would encourage any AX'er to get down there for this event. It will be a lot of track time, instruction and fun over two days - if you break it down to $/hour compared to an AX - there will be no comparison. You will wear out tires and yourself! This is a great opportunity and I would hate to see the club not continue this event due to lack of participation.

Finally - I guess I would make the point that the format of the event has changed at Kershaw each year over the last 3 years - which makes it confusing to the members as to what to expect.

Hope to see you all there!

[ROADBOY]

Saabstory hit the nail on the head. You guys are so much better at saying what I am thinking. My car is basically a street modified car on race tires.

I just looked up info fir the event on the CCR main page. Its says entry for both days is $265.

That doesn't make things easier.

[markt]

The PDE bottom line is:
Helmet: Meets current autocross standards
Clothing: Long sleeves, long pants made of cotton, NO synthetics
Restraints: Factory seatbelts are fine, harness optional
Enclosed cars: bring it on
Open Cars: Must have Time Trials(solo 1) Level roll bar(e.g. Hard Dog Hard Core) and you must keep your head below the bar; Arm restraints

For Time Trials you must have SA Helmet; firesuit/shoes; fire bottle mounted in car; 5-point harness; NO airbag

This will be my second TT and I'm hoping to do one more to qualify for the Blue Ridge Hill Climb in Sparta by having 3 flat tracks in as required before then. It's all part of the progression toward road racing. My plan is to take it bit by bit every year, suspension this year, engine next year, roll-cage and interior gut the year after; then road racing the next year. I hope it works but even if it doesn't I'm having a blast in the process.

Mark
CSP111

[C4Shane]

I think the problem with attendance is that it has been primarily discussed and promoted on the forum and club site - we have only 95 registered users on the site, so with 18 attendees to the PDX that is about 20%. Believe it or not, that is a pretty good number to get when you are trying to get folks to commit a full weekend and $$$. I think the word just isn't getting out to the rest of the club.

[m3]

Have you guys send out PDE info to your mailing lists?

If there is anything, ANYTHING AT ALL, that I can do to help promote this event, please let me know.

[sleeper]

The event sounds tempting but as has already been mentioned it's a matter of time and money. Unfortunately I can't devote an entire weekend and $265 on one event. That's more than an entire season of autox entry fees.

I don't doubt PCA can muster up 100 drivers in a week, but let's look at the average disposable income of a Porsche owner compared to someone like me who owns a Sentra, lol.

[AJordan]

sleeper said:

I don't doubt PCA can muster up 100 drivers in a week, but let's look at the average disposable income of a Porsche owner compared to someone like me who owns a Sentra, lol.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

[ROADBOY]

You said it brother.

[6speed]

Don't know 'bout the rest of you auto-x'rs out there but here are a few things that influenced my decision to attend a NCCC event in Gwinett rather than the PDX at CMP that weekend.

The PDX will share track time with the TT guys which means less time on track than you would get with a PDX only weekend (I don't blame the TT folks though for wanting to run the whole course instead of last years simultaneous events that used a half track each). I got about 4hrs on track over a 2 day weekend at the last several PDEs I did at CMP for about the same cost. ($250......of course that's the cheapest part of a PDE weekend).

Last year we did a Club Trials event with competitive timed laps....WAYFUN!!. This year it's a PDX with no competition and no timed laps.

I have no plans to progress into TT cause I do not want to permanantly alter my car by adding a roll bar (really hurts the resale value of a high end car), and I don't want to have to purchase a firesuit or closed face helmet. I know this is a PDX but it's geared toward getting more people involved in TT and road racing.

On ther other hand...........if there is any one of you that has wanted to get your car out on a real road course for some hot laps then this is the track for it. Lots of runoff room if you get into a little trouble and very few solid objects to hit. No concrete walls and the only guard rails are on a short straight where the track crosses a small creek...never seen it hit. Brakes really get a workout so pay extra attention to prep in that area, especially the brake fluid.

Ya'll have fun.

[orange40]

I'll see ya in Gwinett...

[jbrotbeck]

I see it as a PURPOSEFUL lack of promotion around here because they need all the autocrossers they can get to volunteer to be workers. NOT A BAD THING. I worked Corner 4 at CMP this weekend for an SCCA club race and had blast. Didn't cost me a dime either.

That brings up the second thing that holds autocrossers back from doing Time Trials (formerly Solo 1). THE COST. I will hardly ever do a track day if it costs me over $200 PER WEEKEND for entry fees. A driver's school is a different story. I would pay up to $500 to have a skilled instructor teach me what they know and get to get my license in the process.

Time Trials seem to be just fun thrashing your car, while Driver's Schools actually help you attain a goal....becoming a hardcore road racer.

[m3]

They ARE going to have instructors -- IN the car with you. And at roughly $100/hr of track time, this IS a good deal. Maybe not a great deal, but it's certainly not outrageous. If you can find the same experience for less $$$, I love to hear about it.

[crash477]

So can we get our license after doing this CMP PDE event?? How many does it take?

[ROADBOY]

I dont think so, but it would be nice.

Anyone now the real answer?

[C4Shane]

Well, if Coy or Dick want to chime in it would be great. But, I will tell you what I know from looking over the stuff that you can download at the CCRSCCA.com page (everyone should do this!!!). There are three levels for the PDE (which is a driver's school) and it is intended to walk you towards a license for doing Solo 1 events - If you look at the requirements for the track trials (Formerly known as Solo 1) it basically requires that you complete this level of instruction to go out on the track by yourself. So, I think (and that is all it is - my thinking) that you would need to complete all 3 levels of PDE to be ready to hit the track on your own. But, you gotta start somewhere.

Again - take a minute (or less with cable/DSL) and download the information and read it over for both the PDE and the Track Trials. It will answer a LOT of questions. I hope that helps.

Just my $0.02 worth. Sheryl and I will be working registration, so hope to see many of you there!

[loboracer]

Good evening guys.

I don’t have all of the answers, but let’s see if we can begin to clear the air. The PDE is open to all cars and all drivers having a state approved driver’s license. Open to SCCA members and Non-SCCA members. In other words, if you’re 18, have a state issued driver’s license, two seats with equal belts, a helmet, and $265.00 you get in and receive:

• Four scheduled 20 minutes track sessions per day, 160 minutes of track time. Almost 3 hours, of lets go zoom, zoom, and find the fast line.
• 2-3 hours of class room time, per day
• An in-car instructor.
• Plus a Buffet Saturday after the track activities

Lets see, almost 3 hours of track time, 4-6 hours classroom, and a free dinner Saturday night.

You get theory in the classroom and immediate real-time reinforcement from behind the wheel of your car, with the instructor providing feedback on the activities done well in what you did not do right.

Three groups of driver levels have been defined. The Novice, is someone who has very little or no track time at all. Solo helps, but this is different. The intermediate driver has more track time. He or she may want to focus on additional skills, improved braking control, or trail braking. Each level is intended to move at the students pace, as they prove they are ready to make the next jump. Intermediate drivers should be faster out of the box that a novice, but perhaps slower than an advanced student.

Once a students proves that they have mastered a level, and proven to the instructor that the can control the car (keep all four wheels on the blacktop) beware of the flagging stations, know the flags and obey the general rules of the road, they can be approved to solo. This is a recommendation of the instructor and approved by the chief instructor or PDE event chair. It’s not automatic. Many of my students are just as happy to have me on board even after being OK’ed to solo, just to provide helpful hints and help watch the mirrors.

I’m not aware of any SCCA license related to PDE. As far as Track Trials, We really need to speak with Brian Gause, the TT. Chair.

Let’s have a great time this weekend.

Dick McCollister.

[lagunamiata]

I wish I had $265...

Hope you guys have a dry weekend! Forecast is for rain on Saturday...
It'll suck for me too, I'll be at LMS at Auto Fair... no fun in the rain.

[C4Shane]

Thanks Dick for chiming in and offering some more details. There seem to be a lot of questions on the PDE and I hope it isn't holding anyone back from attending.

[tirewarmer]

Is it possible to do only one day of the PDE for ~50% of the cost? I know this was an option last year when I ran whatever the event was called at that time.

Any chance of running in a higher group without an instructor at a lower cost? I was signed off to run Solo last year. My MINI takes up very little track space and never seems to hold anyone up ;D

[jbrotbeck]

Who do I ask about working a corner at CMP Sat or Sun 4/8 or 4/9?

They DO need corner workers for TT/HPDE, right?

[Mark]

Dick McCollister is the event chair, his emai link is on the right side of the CCR home page.
Mark
CSP111

[zul8r]

See everyone at the track, we will be heading out here in just a bit. anyone know how long the gates are open till? I plan on camping so hopefully i can get there in time.




Airplane Shane
98 Civic DX

[jbrotbeck]

I just called and they are open until 10pm tonight. You're golden, dude.

[ROADBOY]

I wish I join you guys out there. I was unable to get a car ready in time for the event. I may be able to come out and watch on sunday. I'm going to spend the rest of the day saturday trying to finish the car.

[prancingdawg]

News? How did the first day go? Pix?

Hello?

[lagunamiata]

Could be everyone slept down there, no Internet access.

[C4Shane]

Yup. stayed at Colony Inn the last couple of nights. They have internet access but by time we left track on Friday and Saturday nites, got something to eat and got back to motel, getting on internet was furthest thing from my mind. Sheryl and I had a good time getting to meet everyone and being at the track. Took the old Vette with us and had a great ride down and back.

[ROADBOY]

I didn't make it.