What went well? What didn't? What can we improve?

[lagunamiata]

As I've said before, having the printouts at the end of the runs will help. SCR's printouts give you your time, position and time from 1st place.

[sleeper]

7thson said:

Actually, I have seen this, SFR and others do a printout after each heat and post it on a board. However, that is not what I meant. Other than the announcer and the display, are the times EVER posted at the event? It would be nice to know how we did prior to leaving the event. This is the first time I have ever left an autocross (I've been to a couple hundred) without knowing my class results AT ALL. Brad

Usually results are posted after every heat, but because Steven wasn't running the show, it wasn't done this past weekend. I'm sure it will be done again at future events.

d**nyankee38 said:

As far as competiton was concerned.....certain announcers gave competitors rankings as soon as your car came off of the course. Not all of them did though. I think heats 1 & 2 only, I know it didn't happen during heat 3, at least I didn't hear it.

I announced the first heat and made it a point to say the class rankings after every run, it definitely helps people out and makes things more interesting for the spectators. If you sit close enough to the laptop you can easily read this information. It should be done for every heat.

[nitroc5]

Overall all I really liked both days. I thought everything went pretty smooth and here are some of my comments:

What I really liked:
1) Signing waiver upon entrance
2) I'm biased I know, but REALLY liked the course on Sunday
3) The announcers giving where the cars ranked was very
4) Having 5 runs on Sunday was much better than the normal 4
5) Having the snack shack is a VERY good idea!

Areas for improvment:
1) Did not like the course at all on Saturday...not only was it too tight (I know I'm biased), but nothing was chalked off and I had 3 DNF's in a row and only one clean run
2) Newbies need to mark their numbers and class clearly....I worked the start and this held us up MANY times
3) The second part of the course needs to be faster than the first part of the couse as we almost had an accident at the cross over on Sunday.
4) I really wish we would get the first car off right at 10am as we advertise so that people would stop showing up later and later
5) We need to buy some leaf blowers (I'll even donate some $$ for this) so we can blow off the entire course much easier and quicker.
6) I wish we had a cleaned off area by the grid where we specifically could use to get some heat in our tires and brake pads. I run race pads and they simply do not work at all until I get some heat in them and this would be much safer than doing it on the access road.

[truk41]

I dont think we need to buy leaf blowers for the club, just if you have them, bring them. I have one, I can bring it. I was 6th(or so) car on course on saturday morning, I agree,cleaning the course would make it more even for PAX times, but dont think it is that big of a deal especially within class.

[justinhomi]

I've heard a lot of people say they didn't like the course layout on Saturday. I liked it actually. I didn't do very well, but it was still a fun course. I didn't think it was all that tight, really. I was very happy not to have a 180deg pivot cone like so many other courses have.

[C4Shane]

In answer to a few items, but not all ~ We could have a little info card (as discussed on page 1 of this thread) that tells a noobie what order to do things in and who to contact as necessary. I have been to a lot of autocrosses and many do not lable the registration table, tech, etc. as these are usually pretty obvious as to what they are - however a noob would need to know to look for them. Feel free to volunteer to make up info cards or to assist in providing information.
Yes - we could work on getting times out - the announcers really try their best, but sometimes the info isn't readily available during the runs - when it is, they try to provide it. Feel free to volunteer to announce!
Leader Board - we could get a large marker/chalk board and do this too - feel free to volunteer to put together/obtain such a board (I am sure the club can pay for it) or to work with the printer to help out Mark (the van keeps him busy enuf!).
Point is - If you think we can improve on something - Feel Free to MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! That is why we have a waiver table, hot dog stand (fundraising), announcer, etc. etc. It comes about as a result of Volunteers - and we appreciate all of them.

Thanks to all of those that were so helpful and made this such a great two day event!!!! And, thanks to all the workers who showed up on time and volunteered to take on some of the less-fun assignments!

As to the course, I vote for Saturday - more technical, tighter, really got me up on the wheel and I really liked it.

Nitro makes a great point - the second half of the course MUST be faster than the first or we risk problems.

Let's all get out there and have fun!

[justinhomi]

nitroc5 said:

6) I wish we had a cleaned off area by the grid where we specifically could use to get some heat in our tires and brake pads. I run race pads and they simply do not work at all until I get some heat in them and this would be much safer than doing it on the access road.

Isn't it illegal per SCCA rules to warm up your tires prior to your runs?

In regards to your brake pads, you could warm up the rear ones by leaving the parking brake up while you're approaching the start line. That wouldn't really help with the fronts though (or your brake balance .

[xeric13x]

well being saturday was my first auto-x, here is some stuff that i had no idea about, but luckily had a friend there that has auto-x'ed b4.

1. i only knew the reg table was there cause i guessed and figured i paid there.
2. number size, duh
3. i knew the car had to go thru tech cause they do at any kind of racing, but did not know where it was or when i could go there til my friend told me.
4. was unaware we could walk the course
5. i know its been discussed, but i was lookin for some sorta leaderboard
6. its a good idea to inform noobs to bring: tape, shoe polish, portable air compressor, and tire gauge and explain y
7. possibly have a first timers section in grid that runs last or close to last so they can watch a lil b4 having to run

if i think of anything else, i'll post it up and thanx for great time last weekend

[volksman]

I was there for both days and had a great time. The course on saturday was confusing on the left hand side, the start side. No chalk made it difficult because I hadn't seen a set up like that one before. Were there cones with pointers? Of course there were. Right out of the gate was a wall of them pointing to a four way intersection. But that intersection had no pointers because it was being used in two directions. Chalk would have helped there, or had the string of cones that pointed the way a little closer. I liked it mainly because it was longer.
On the subject of safety, I liked the chains at the end of the parking lot, and the sign-in at the beginning. Worked well. But no one was there for the duration of the day. I know it's boring to be over there, but SCR keeps people there all day to watch for spectators and makes it one of the course worker spots so no one person is stuck there all day. During the latter part of the day( I can't remember which day) two SUV's tried to go right by me into the staging area,( I was on the Knoll going to get time off of the table) where cars were coming in and out of for their runs. The first was polite, I said just turn around and park over by the other cars and truck in the first row (farthest from the grid) the second watched the first turn around and then gunned it to go right past me. I waved my arms and said "stop" (like a bad episode of CHIPS!) I said were are you going? She said in an exasperated way, that she was just going over there to park, pointing towards the grid. I said that that was for competitors only, please park over there, pointing towards the other trucks and stuff. I couldn't believe someone would just try to go over into the grid and park with all the other neatly parked cars. Except that I knew they were autocrossers and she didn't. Maybe a sign and some cones? I know guys need to be able to get back to their stuff after they run, but maybe a sign on a post in a bucket would help. Maybe one at the beginning of tech to indicate "tech" and with two arrows to form two lines would help the newbies as well. If you want one, let me know.
On the subject of tech: After finishing tech I drove down the row next to where I was, happening to be the first row next to the berm. It dead ended in Corvette town. I snuck my way through, but tech needs a place to exit without having to turn arond and face back at tech, as cars are coming to tech. Just a thought.

I'd also rather see the tape print outs instead of the leader board. A leader board would need constant attention, by more than one person, to keep it right and updated. Ticker tape is the way to go if it's in our clubs budget.

Thanks to all for the great time.

What happened with the van? There was a Haynes Manual already in the front, so that's never a good sign.

[C4Shane]

Thanks Volksman for the comments - and policing the grid. Actually, we did have someone sent over to relieve the waiver table during each session. Not sure why someone wasn't there when you looked. Will make sure next time - and we are going to move it at Knights over near the corvette area as the waiver table can be near the course and the worker can enjoy watching some of the fun.

Tech - we used to have a bucket with a flag, but don't know what happened to it.
As to rude folks - we get a few of them at each event that drive thru and don't seem to understand that we are conducting an event. This isn't unique to CCR as I have seen it at others as well. Thanks for policing that location - we have added someone at the top of the grid to act as a traffic cop to avoid incidents, but it sounds like it is needed to deal with outsiders as well.

Tape print out is nice - We could even have someone write down the times to hand you as you exit in a pinch. Just another worker position!

As for some of the novice comments - there certainly can be some additional signage (volunteers??) but we address many of the other points on the novice forum re: numbering, what to bring, course walks, etc., etc. When someone registers online - there is also contact information/CCR site information for anyone to contact regarding questions, etc. If you go to the novice forum, we even provide a link to Kate Holmes Solo handbook (FREE!!) that you can download and it provides basic info and many good driving tips.

Thanks for all the comments -

[lagunamiata]

And the guy on the motorcycle... I saw him blast down the parking line, toward the 'Vette area. PDawg waved him down and told him to slow down. We need to make sure that we police the spectators.

[volksman]

The two SUV's came in exactly during the shift change between run groups. That's the only reason I ran into them, because I was going over to the table for results. She wasn't rude so much as she was probobly frustrated that I stopped her on her journey. I also saw a sweet triumph Bonneville. Riding around the staging grid talking to friends. Bikes and cars should be treated the same, but I didn't even think of saying anything to him. Don't know why. Maybe because it was such a righteous bike and the SUV's are such pigs. Guess I'm biased.

As long as the next autocross is on the 11th and not the tenth, I'll bring some buckets and signs from the sign guy. Greg

[prancingdawg]

I'm glad to see you folks using this thread in this forum the way it was intended. These comments and ideas improve the breed... thank you for your interest. Anyone care to help implement them?

[Mark]

Per Doc Mahan(Subaru U., class of 99) it is:
1. Blown Head Gasket
2. Burned Piston(s)
3. Dropped Valve(s)
4. All of the above
5. Something Else

As I type it's sitting dead in my driveway, empty of all AutoX stuff...which is in my office...living room...back bedroom...breezeway...

Mark
CSP111

[jbrotbeck]

Loved the courses, both days. I will never ever complain about a course unless I have to go down into first gear more than once (and that has never happened in 7+ years). That's what I like about autoX. Run what you brung and do the best with what you got (including the course that is presented to you).

As far as warming up tires, yes it is illegal. Warming up brake pads isn't. I have always warmed my brakes on the way from Grid to the start line before each run. I lunge the car forward about four feet and stop abruptly with a firm pedal, then let off abruptly. Works fine for my Hawk HP+ pads. NitroC5, I can see why you might want to do this more in private...your car is freakin' loud and scary!

One thing that isn't cool is a violation of page 35 of the rulebook that I witnessed. I am not going to name names or point fingers, but people should not be riding with other drivers before their run group OR letting other people drive their cars for them before their run group. This is just bad sportsmanship and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to sneak this past us. If you do it again I will protest you and you will lose credit for your runs. Not because I don't like you, but because it isn't fair to your fellow competitors.

Other than that, I had a hootin' hollerin' good time!

Good:
-snack shack
-waivers
-grid
-five runs on Sunday


Bad:
-late start
-no time slips

Ugly:
-my performance
-the page 35 violator(s)

[sleeper]

jbrotbeck said:

One thing that isn't cool is a violation of page 35 of the rulebook that I witnessed. I am not going to name names or point fingers, but people should not be riding with other drivers before their run group OR letting other people drive their cars for them before their run group. This is just bad sportsmanship and you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to sneak this past us. If you do it again I will protest you and you will lose credit for your runs. Not because I don't like you, but because it isn't fair to your fellow competitors.

Hey that's not cool at all. I would hope a novice did that, because anyone with even minimal autox experience should realize that's a big no no.

[7thson]

jbrotbeck said:

As far as warming up tires, yes it is illegal.

Where, exactly, is this stated in the rules?

6.11 Preheating Tires
Pre-heating of tires prior to competition by electrically heated covers or by similar means is prohibited.

I don't believe "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area constitutes "similar means." Am I missing another rule, or is that some "generally accepted" interpretation of this one?

Curious.
Brad

[truk41]

I have seen people riding with others before their runs at each of the 8 events I have been at this year. But I will also say that if a novice is there for his/her first ever autox, we should allow at least one ride.(so they can see it at speed and understand what it really looks like)

[MrsVlad]

prancingdawg said:

I'm glad to see you folks using this thread in this forum the way it was intended. These comments and ideas improve the breed... thank you for your interest. Anyone care to help implement them?

I can make up "Instruction Cards" & Big signs for the Tech, Regy, & Waiver tables. I'll bring my creations to the next Social for approval.

[C4Shane]

Big Exhalt for ya MrsVlad!!!! That is great. Not sure how many instruction cards you will need, but it will primarily be novices that will need the assistance. Thanks again!!!

[ROADBOY]

7thson said:

jbrotbeck said:

As far as warming up tires, yes it is illegal.

Where, exactly, is this stated in the rules?

6.11 Preheating Tires
Pre-heating of tires prior to competition by electrically heated covers or by similar means is prohibited.

I don't believe "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area constitutes "similar means." Am I missing another rule, or is that some "generally accepted" interpretation of this one?

Curious.
Brad

Clarification on this issue would be helpful. Especially for me. I run full race slicks that require heat to work at all. I'd like to know if there's anyway for me to get heat into them without breaking the rules. Again this is one of those things not clearly explained in the rules.

[jbyrd]

7thson said:

6.11 Preheating Tires
Pre-heating of tires prior to competition by electrically heated covers or by similar means is prohibited.

I'm not sure how much more clearly this can be stated.

7thson said:

I don't believe "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area constitutes "similar means." Am I missing another rule, or is that some "generally accepted" interpretation of this one?

That is correct. It would not constitute a violation of rule 6.11. However, "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area will get you disqualified for other reasons. The best legal way I know is to take them out and simply drive around on them at legal speeds.

[jbyrd]

truk41 said:

I have seen people riding with others before their runs at each of the 8 events I have been at this year. But I will also say that if a novice is there for his/her first ever autox, we should allow at least one ride.(so they can see it at speed and understand what it really looks like)

Veterans riding with novices is ok AFTER THEY HAVE HAD THEIR COMPETITIVE RUNS - not before they make them.

And novices in their first few events should be able ride with veterans. That's how it's done here and in most regions.

We have gotten very relaxed with this rule in CCR which is sad because it breaks the core code of conduct which rules our sport.

Part of this relaxation probably comes from the 24 Hours, which is different and where the rule doesn't matter. And we also get lax with the rule during the Novice School weekend event, which is doubly bad because it gives some of the newcomers to our sport the impression that it is ok to see the course at speed before his/her competitive runs.

It is not ok to see the course at speed before one makes a competitive run. Just try it somewhere outside of CCR and see what happens.

It is clearly stated in Rule 4.9 (page 35 of the 2006 National Solo Rules) - Conflict of Interest.

[ROADBOY]

jbyrd said:

7thson said:

6.11 Preheating Tires
Pre-heating of tires prior to competition by electrically heated covers or by similar means is prohibited.

I'm not sure how much more clearly this can be stated.

7thson said:

I don't believe "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area constitutes "similar means." Am I missing another rule, or is that some "generally accepted" interpretation of this one?

That is correct. It would not constitute a violation of rule 6.11. However, "scrubbing" or "burn-outs" in the pre-grid area will get you disqualified for other reasons. The best legal way I know is to take them out and simply drive around on them at legal speeds.

Thats what i did at the last autocross and what I will continue to do. Thanks JB.

[AJordan]

There are tires and brakepads specifically made to be used cold for the sake of autocross. Heat management is part of the game.

[ROADBOY]

Thats good to know, I may look into that for the future. For now, due to money restraints, I'll stick with what I have.

[prancingdawg]

I think the whole tire warming issue is stoopid. We can't have the vette club doing John Force style burnouts at the start line and writing it off to " my tires aren't warm enuff" You have like a GOZILLION horsepowers...learn to control them!

[volksman]

He also has a gozillion DECIBLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the risk of offending said car, it won't win any friends in the neighborhoods we go to. Sorry, but true. Thankfully we run away from most homes and other sources of complaints. BUt the thing is stoopid loud. I honestly don't think that whatever that exhaust adds in power makes any difference in the times it turns. Law of diminishing returns? Maybe out on the salt it might make a difference, but around here? Nah.
Now if I could just get those extra ponies into my car........

[lagunamiata]

The Corvette in question is far from the loudest thing out there... I don't think it's stupid loud. Personally, I think it's just fine.
Remember the Civic that runs with SCR? That thing needs a muffler big time!!
I'd rather hear a nice V-8 than a Honda with a fart can any day!!!

[volksman]

I agree it's far from the loudest, and it sounds better than the angry bee honda becuase of the frequency. It's all about the number of pulses coming down the exhaust, the size of the pipe and lack of baffling. Low frequency sounds better than the near 1k that the honda makes. 1k is that tinny sound we tune out of the stereo with our equalizer. Resonators and mufflers mix up the sound to something that the driver finds apealing, maybe not us. If the powers that be don't want to enforce the decibel rule, it makes no difference to me. I just cover my ears when they are on the track. But I'd be willing to bet that the vette in question, and that Honda exceeds the rules and if measured from the vicinity of the course workers it goes by, would be near the point of pain. But again, at least it's only for a brief second, and I don't want people being sent home without running because of it. Anything over 110Db is causing damage, immediatly. Your hearing does not regenerate, trust me.
Oh well, enough of a rant. Let 's just enjoy ourselves and be carefull!