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Post by keithcarp72 on Nov 29, 2006 19:53:07 GMT -5
I have some exp with metric chassies so herer is my 2 cents. I would try about 700 to 900 lbs front and 175 - 250 rear. the reason the rates are lower is the courses are flat and not banked. I would try to get all of the weight as low as possable. air pressure will depend a lot on the tire. if you run a "dot" tire I would start at 45 psi and go from there. it is a lot of trial and error. If you can make the dec 10 look for me ill be with a white mustang near the corvettes. I have a metric stock car so you have got me thinking?  ? |
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Post by westernauto17 on Nov 30, 2006 7:32:03 GMT -5
Just the man I need to talk to.
I think I'll try springs in those ranges befor I buy any crazy ones. I'm pretty sure I've got a couple 900's already and I know we have rear springs in those ranges.
The tires I'm plannin on running are Hoosier eMod's. 45 would be pretty high for those, but we'll see.
I don't know if we'll make it out on the 10th (inlaws are coming to town), but I'll definetaly look you up if we're there.
Do you race the metric on pavement or dirt?
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Post by keithcarp72 on Nov 30, 2006 7:59:29 GMT -5
I ran on dirt. The problem with dirt tires is that they have thin sidewalls. If you watch e-bay you can find used road race tires pretty cheap. I got a set of 4 22/9.5/15 for about $125 delivered. auto-x puts a lot of side load on the tires so you need a short stiff sidewall to keep the tread from rolling up. Dirt tires are designed to run low air and have flexable sidewalls so the tire can deform to the track surface for more bite. the sidewall construsction of dirt tires are similar to drag slicks. feel free to contact me any time I will be glad to help what I can. I live near hickory so you shouldn't be to far away. My e-mail is keithcar72@yahoo.com
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Post by westernauto17 on Nov 30, 2006 9:25:25 GMT -5
Excellent point on the dirt tires, I was concerned about them being a bit too soft.
You'll be sorry you gave me that e-mail, I have a lot of questions.
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Post by roundman on Nov 30, 2006 10:23:07 GMT -5
Great price on the tires ...mine run about 900.00 bucks a set for auto x tires...225/45/15...but I get used race tires for free...and have have been known to give a set or 2 ..up to my buds or if I get a heads up will bring a free set to the next race... ;D but thats the only size I can get in the R compound
Joey Sutton es#60
p-dawgs backup safty dude & J-BIRD too
gas. gas. gas.
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Post by westernauto17 on Nov 30, 2006 10:51:26 GMT -5
How does a guy go about becoming one of your "buds"? ;D
Sounds like your a good guy to know.
I really hope these dirt tire will work, I've got 7 or 8 good ones still lying around. They are DOT tires, but they are rediculously soft compared to "real" street tires.
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Post by roundman on Nov 30, 2006 12:21:26 GMT -5
The soft tires should great....of course ya know there going to wear out alot faster...but alot of club racers use auto x tires (soft) to qualify then go to race tires..but if ya need a set of tires 225/45/15..we are getting ready to clean out our trailor ..saabstory and you guys let me know first come first serve
some are goood some are fair...free is the key word here folks..dont know if I will make statesville or not the rx7 is getting ready for a brand new engine & tranny and shocks
Joey Sutton es#60
p-dawgs backup safty dude & J-BIRD too
gas.gas.gas
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Post by westernauto17 on Nov 30, 2006 12:43:45 GMT -5
If you have some decent 15" rubber, I'll take 'em if no one else wants 'em.
Of course, I'll have to pile them in the back seat of my car since I have yet to go back to Illinois to pick up my ol truck.
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adam
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by adam on Nov 30, 2006 13:21:03 GMT -5
The soft tires should great....of course ya know there going to wear out alot faster...but alot of club racers use auto x tires (soft) to qualify then go to race tires..but if ya need a set of tires 225/45/15..we are getting ready to clean out our trailor ..saabstory and you guys let me know first come first serve Joey Sutton es#60 p-dawgs backup safty dude & J-BIRD too gas.gas.gas What width wheel did you run those tires on out of couriusoity? I want to see how wide a tire i can run on the stock wheels on my car if i can ever get the time and money to make it to an event. |
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Post by roundman on Nov 30, 2006 15:15:17 GMT -5
Stock 7"inch wheels ;D..15x7 bbs wheels
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adam
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by adam on Nov 30, 2006 15:55:54 GMT -5
so it seems that size would not fit say a 15x5.5" wheel then  |
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Post by MattP on Nov 30, 2006 16:03:05 GMT -5
Should fit. The CS Miata folks run that size on a 15x6.
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Post by C4Shane on Nov 30, 2006 16:28:39 GMT -5
just need a good tire squeezin' machine..hydraulic oughta do it. I mounted the last set from Joey on a set of 15x8s (it is what I stole off an old white camaro someone left sitting outdoors).
Joey, let me look at what I have in the current pile. Colin and I want to run the Camaro again, but engine puked after last AX event we had it at - something about the big Nascar slix hooking up all at once, I think. Making funny rattling noises. But a new motor is just down the road.
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Post by damnyankee on Nov 30, 2006 16:29:46 GMT -5
just need a good tire squeezin' machine..hydraulic oughta do it. I mounted the last set from Joey on a set of 15x8s (it is what I stole off an old white camaro someone left sitting outdoors). Joey, let me look at what I have in the current pile. Colin and I want to run the Camaro again, but engine puked after last AX event we had it at - something about the big Nascar slix hooking up all at once, I think. Making funny rattling noises. But a new motor is just down the road. James may sell you an engine..... ;D |
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Post by C4Shane on Nov 30, 2006 18:11:14 GMT -5
Heck, anyone can buy one...I try to practice for the 200x grassroots challenge by stealing what I need off of lonely vehicles! Friend of mine left the keys for a 97 Camaro hanging by his garage door, where his son found them. Kid took the car for flying lessons and all that was left was the motor and two of the wheels - the other two wheels came completely off and went off into the woods never to be found. Nice little motor, just need to swap all the injector crap etc to get it to work. His son is now in the Navy!
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Post by damnyankee on Nov 30, 2006 21:26:48 GMT -5
Oh sure!! Send the kid to the Navy and you steal the parts off of his car!!!
Bad, bad, bad!!!
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Post by C4Shane on Nov 30, 2006 21:36:22 GMT -5
No such thing as a fair fight in war or car parts!
Roundman - sent ya a PM! Thanks!
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 1, 2006 21:05:26 GMT -5
WesternAuto17:
Your concept of starting with the springs, tires, shocks, etc that you already have on hand is correct. Two or three events will give you a MUCH better idea where you should spend time and money.
By now, I'm sure you have noticed the focus is 1) driver, 2) suspension, 3) whatever is left.
One point on suspension that I haven't noticed above: We run some fairly short-radius turns compared with the rest of autosports. That makes turn-in and transitional handling more important than it would be in oval-track. It is still important for the car to be stable in the higher-speed sections, if any. But don't be surprised if your standard setups tend to push, especially if you use a locked differential.
And, on the subject of tires: Again, I suggest you start with what you have on hand unless you have some solid reason to do otherwise, at least until you get driver and suspension sorted to the point that tires are the limiting factor. Also see the next post.
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 1, 2006 22:57:32 GMT -5
WesternAuto17:
In any motorsport, tires are very important. At the national level where a few tenths of a second can mean the difference between a win and a mid-pack finish, it's a waste of time to bother with anything but the best and freshest tires. But, for those of us who have other uses for our money, it's a reality that we will spend very little time on the absolutely-best-and-freshest tires. We've got to make compromises between cost and performance. (I'd love to be able to buy new tires twice a year. But it ain't happening.)
For someone just starting in the Prep or Mod classes, I recommend considering used slicks. If well-chosen, they can be a very good value. (That's especially true if you can put your hands on some free tires, or tires already in your garage!)
Be aware, OLD tires are not the same as USED tires. Dried-out old prunes that someone took off the car a few seasons ago are, predictably, going to be slow. The amount of compound ("tread, if it wasn't a slick) is far less important than the condition of the compound. When buying used tires for competition, make sure you are buying a tire that is reasonably fresh. Unless you can pick at the compound with your fingernails before you buy, make sure you work with persons you can trust.
Good used tires won't be as fast as stickers, but may well be much faster than the tires used by your competitors. And, ultimately, that's what counts.
Professional drivers and those with an excess of cash will stay on fresh tires. For that reason, there are almost always decent used slicks available.
Over the years, I've bought several sets of used slicks from John Berget, and have never been disappointed. The remaining tread and condition of the tire (including freshness of the compound) has always been at least as good as John told me it would be. I first bought tires from him more than twenty years ago. If someone stays in business that long selling used tires, you can bet he's satisfying his customers. John is at 262-740-0180. He runs a small add in Grass Roots Motorsports magazine ("USED GOODYEAR & OTHER MAJOR BRAND RACING TIRES...."). You can contact him through his web-site (www.JBRacingtires.com), but I feel like you'll get better info if you call him.
All used tires are not equal. Just as age affects tires, so does the way the tire was used. Heat cycles cause curing, which tends to make tires last longer but not grip as well. (A medium-compound tire in good condition may actually grip better than a soft-compound tire that's been cycled excessively.) THe better dealers usually have a pretty good idea what they has on hand, and might be able to help you decide what is best for your needs. And, if one doesn't have what you want, call again a few weeks later (assuming it's not the dead of winter). Also make sure they know you're autocrossing, because the tires won't get as hot as when road-racing. (Some race tires don't work well cold.)
I would not go to new(sticker) tires until the car is well-sorted. I only started buying new tires when I reached the point that I felt like everything else on the car was pretty close to right. And I still buy used slicks on occasion. My most recent set was for a car I built a few years ago. For my purposes, they were at least as good as new tires. And they cost me hundreds less than new tires. The next set of slicks for that car will probably also be used.
If you were in a smaller car, I would recommend also considering Falken Azensis. The prices are good, and the tires are quick. I know one EP driver (4-cylinder front-wheel-drive Honda) who runs faster on these tires than he does on slicks. But I don't have a feel for whether these tires would be worthwile on a heavier and higher-horsepower car.
When you ARE at the point that you need new slicks, you will not need advice from a forum on what tire to buy. You will have already seen what your fastest competitors are running, and will likely know what's hot at the national level. Until then, spend the bucks where you will get the best return: entry fees.
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Post by C4Shane on Dec 3, 2006 12:54:54 GMT -5
Yep - what he said. I run in E/P with a little Fiesta and started off with a set of slicks from ebay, followed by a bigger set and better as they became available. Have also gone to Berget for tires. Good prices and his description of the tires are quite accurate. You can get tires that have little more than a few qualifying laps for about 1/3rd of new.
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