Mini Cup in Solo?

[rterrell]

I was curious if anyone has heard of Mini Cups running Solo events? I'm a refugee from the currently-in-hiatus-while-looking-for-more-sponsor-dough Charlotte Arena Racing series so I have one sitting around, all dressed up with no place to go.

The other day I was whining to a friend at a local body shop about the fact that I'd be happy to run it in a large parking lot just to get some seat time, and he said "Well, now that you mention it..." So here I am.

I did go through the SCCA rulebook looking for the correct car class. I think it's a "Special" since it's not a Kart and doesn't seem to fit any of the modified or prepared categories. It's truly neither fish nor fowl as it is at least twice the size of a kart and is half the size of a stock car chassis.

There is some basic info here www.minicup.com/intro.htm and here arenaracingusa.com/car-information.aspx

Sorry for the lengthy post, and thanks in advance for your help!

Rick

[lagunamiata]

Sounds like you're talking about a Baby Grand. I know we have Baby Grands that road race and hillclimb. Look up Scott Franklin on the CCR web site (he's a Board of Directors member). He runs one.

For SOLO, I'll have to look at the rules, but if you want to come out and play, we'll find someplace for you to run. We all love to see new fun stuff!

[nutdriverrighty]

Rich,

The Minicup car is much more like a Bandolero. Full body, rollcage, etc. Has much smaller engine. They've been racing them in the old Charlotte Colliseum on a track about the size of a hockey rink. For such a small area, these things fly!!

Rick,
I dont know exactly where you'd fall within the classing of autocross, but I'm sure that we can find a place for you. If you're crazy enough to race it up a mountain on a public road, I think that your cage and safety equipment might make it eligible for hillclimbs!! Steve Eckerich, can you put in your $0.02 worth on this? I'll get specs on the cars if you need them to possibly generate a logbook. This thing might qualify for SPU for hillclimb purposes. You can contact me directly at [e-mail]. (Rick OR Steve)

Scott

[rterrell]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes, the Mini Cup is smaller than the Baby Grand which would be about a 3/4-scale stock car with more HP and a transmission. The mini cup motor is the racing version of the Honda GX390 which starts life as a 13HP generator motor, essentially. It has a cam, carb and a few other racing parts to get it up into the middle 20HP range, compared to 90HP or so for a Legends car? And no tranny, just a big kart clutch (Horstman Redhawk).

Scott,

I'd like to hear more about the hillclimb, though since it's low power and no tranny i'm not sure how that would work out. They are definitely momentum cars, so I guess it depends on the hill I'll email you for more info.

A couple of things I'm curious about are noise levels and gearing. It has a straight pipe into a spark arrestor so it kind of barks, but i have no idea what 95dB sounds like at 50 feet so not sure if I'll need to find a way to muffle it or how much.

And is there a place where I could look at example course layouts? I'd like to get a feel for how long the longest straights tend to be so i can order some gears that will hopefully allow the crankshaft to remain on the INSIDE of the case.

Rick

[nutdriverrighty]

If you dig around on the site, you can find threads for the hillclimbs that have videos. Wolf Ridge and Eagle's Nest are two to look for. In the Baby Grand, I never get out of third, and that's with a relatively short rear end ratio.
One thing about hillclimbs that I particularly like is that there is only one car on course at a time, so it's just you and the course. Go fast, go slow, whatever. There's no one their to bump you, force you off, or spin you.

[rterrell]

I'll admit it, I DO miss being a human pinball. But the prospect of unimpeded left AND right-hand turns is inviting. I'll hunt around for the hillclimb vids.

Rick

[glueguy]

Been there, done that.

I had a Super MiniCup through MMRA in 96-97 when I was in Ohio. Ran it at Indy Raceway Park to support ESPN2 Thursday Night Lightning. Same deal GX390 and Horstmann centrifugal.

I autocrossed it once. The problem with these cars and autocross is that they are all momentum and no acceleration. At the start, you trip the timers 10-20 feet after the start. The green flag waves, and you scream across the starting lights at a walking speed. Most of the course you can do at WOT, but some of the turns are tight enough that you need to lift, or you'll bicycle. Once you lift, you're looking around, waiting for the centrifugal to start accelerating again.

When I did this, I ran in some mod class - I can't remember which one, but it didn't matter. The exercise was no fun. Wrong venue for the cars.

I still miss it. Tight, close racing. I actually considered doing the Arena series.

[glueguy]

Forgot to add - exhaust noise - I ran a straight pipe that had a 90 degree bend (I know, I said straight ) to aim straight to the ground. This is what we ran on the ovals. I don't remember a sound issue, but for the rest of the group, it's like a loud lawn mower. 95dB I think is a typical Briggs with a lawn muffler, so you may be a bit loud, but it's offset by aiming the exhaust right at the ground under the bodywork of the car which might keep it under the limit.

[turtle8]

With the centrifugal clutch, could you not autocross the Mini-Cup car like an F-Mod Formula 500? Bryan Powell said he autocrossed is F-mod trying to keep the RPMs up and steer with the brake.

[glueguy]

That's what you have to do - the problem is that this isn't no F500 meant to turn. It's a kart with a cage - it's heavy, the cg is higher than a kart, and with the oval track shocks and no sway bars, they want to body roll, which tends to keep going until you bicycle onto two wheels. Maybe they've improved them in the past 10 years, but I tried this technique and it worked for most corners, but there were some where it didn't work. Lift for just a second and the momentum was done and you waited - and waited - and waited - for the clutch to hook back up again.

[glueguy]

The cars are narrow enough that once you get going, you'll get a good head of steam. A couple of offsets become a straight, etc. and you are doing the same 50-55 mph as most other cars headed into the next 180 turn. Your problem is that with the centrifugal clutch, unlike other cars, you can't lift turn-in and roll back on the throttle like normal cars. And unlike an F500, these cars aren't set up to quickly come back to speed. In oval, it's a flying start and you can get through the corners by using both pedals so that you don't lose momentum.

[rterrell]

Aw, bummer, this is exactly the info I was looking for. I had a feeling that momentum/no-tranny would be an issue. In arena we have rolling starts and 12-18-degree banking, as well as tires that are basically glue-covered balloons. Lots of traction, not much power, no problem. And, yeah, lots of body roll. I think i have flipped mine about 6 times, even with all the banking. I can count on one hand the number of times the rear end broke loose, and that was probably somebody hitting me exiting the corner.

I do have an old Ninja 250 motor out in the shed. hmmm.

[rterrell]

And thanks for the noise-level comparison, glueguy. We were running the exact pipe you are speaking of for the first season and a half, but the arrestor kept getting knocked off due to being too close to the ground. We now use one that points more to the rear. Kind of into the left rear wheel well. Not sure how much louder that maks it, if any.

[fastfrontier]

Well my $.02 would be to come out and try it. I am all about not being the most competitve and just coming out to have fun (I have had a few trucks on course and way too aggressive to be fast). I would guess the courses we run on are generally not going to offer as much traction as you are used to plus driving on cold tires for the first run or 2 depending on outside temps, could provide some different driving situations that might help when are going sideways in your other racing. Besides, as long as you don't have a problem with the car, the worst that will happen is you will have taken a day to talk with some great guys and get lots of questions about your car.

[rterrell]

Yeah, I might just bring it out anyhow. I live fairly close to Carowinds so it would be fairly easy to trailer it over and give it a shot. In any case, now that I know about the events, my boys will probably want to see some of them as they seem to spend every waking moment playing Grid on the xBox these days. I'll trade a potentially boring run for meeting interesting car people any day.

[lagunamiata]

You'll have fun no matter what. Hope you make it to Carowinds!

[roundman]

Bring it!!! they will class it..carowinds lot may be big enough for ya...you will have a good time and thats what it is all about..

[prancingdawg]

Safety says try it- plenty of runoff room at Carowinds. Hell, my miata is a momentum car- but I can accelerate where you haveta row a lot to get there. You'll haveta "drive ahead" of the car as we say. Falkner???