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Post by apexemall on Jun 17, 2012 15:45:29 GMT -5
What is the club rule on windows open or down during an AX run.
I was reading bar codes and asked someone to put her window down. She refused, rolled up the window and went off on her run.
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Post by integra55 on Jun 17, 2012 16:09:14 GMT -5
not sure about our ( ccr ) rules ... but if I remember correctly from past times scr's rules are either up or down ... just have to be the same and have to be all the way
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Post by dasautochris on Jun 17, 2012 16:09:27 GMT -5
Pretty sure both all the way up and all the way down is OK. Halfway up is a no go. Could be wrong though.
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Post by drum3 on Jun 17, 2012 17:56:47 GMT -5
Yup , either way is fine , half way is not .
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Post by ball80 on Jun 17, 2012 18:06:25 GMT -5
I thought due to safety windows had to be down in order to hear someone on the track in case of emergency and you didn't see the red flag.... thats what they taught in novice schools i think
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Post by srduck on Jun 17, 2012 18:46:40 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that windows should be down for that exact reason unless it's raining or something. I can't see any reason to make people get their interiors soaked during a rain event or anything, but it DOES help to get someone's attention if they can hear workers.
Can't find anything definitive in the rule book, though
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Post by apexemall on Jun 17, 2012 19:07:39 GMT -5
AX may be different, but at the PDX I went to with the Atlanta region, we definitely had to put the windows down in very heavy rain, and the AX novice school I attended with CCR taught windows down also. I'd just like to be clear before I try to pull a 30 year veteran off the starting line.
Clyde
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Post by integra55 on Jun 17, 2012 19:10:35 GMT -5
the woman you tried to make roll down their window is a multi time national trophy winner ... she does tend to know the rules ... her husband ... a many time national champion also runs with his windows up ... like I said they tend to know the rules
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Post by ball80 on Jun 17, 2012 19:31:37 GMT -5
I don't care if your a world champion. It's safer to have windows down. You hear someone scream it takes you out the zone. Natural reaction. And at this level non-national event where we have many novices on course there needs to be those extra precautions. I can't tell the number of times I've seen someone run out for a cone in the path of a
Car fixing to come.
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Post by yellow CR on Jun 17, 2012 20:06:56 GMT -5
Up or down it doesn't matter.
I can tell you I will never hear anyone scream at me as I drive on course and I drive a convertable.
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Post by srduck on Jun 17, 2012 20:15:02 GMT -5
It's a bit of a safety issue too, though. Road racing doesn't allow windows because workers need to have access to communicate with the driver in the event that something happens. Let's say, just to pluck a completely random scenario completely randomly out of the air.... if a Honda engine were to let go at an event... WAY out on the far side of the course.... well away from the emergency vehicles... and it were to catch on fire because it put a piston through the block and dumped oil on hot headers... having windows down gives an extra escape route plus access for whatever worker responds carrying the fire extinguisher.
Again, completely random
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Post by stealthgtfour on Jun 17, 2012 20:15:49 GMT -5
they can be up no issues there. jinx always runs with the window closed
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Post by apexemall on Jun 17, 2012 20:42:49 GMT -5
Very interesting discussion. Sounds like I'm not the first to ponder this point. I did have the impression that she knew more on the subject than I did.
Since it seems to be a safety concern (real or imagined), It does seem reasonable for CCR to take a position one way or the other.
Clyde
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Post by cr89x on Jun 18, 2012 4:55:31 GMT -5
National office says the windows may be full up or full down. The car you speak of is still used to having no power and wanting less drag, haha yup. Anyway ... You are right though that I said at the novice school that you SHOULD run windows down for those reasons you mentioned. I highly encourage everyone to continue running with their windows down, but be aware that there are, although VERY few, that run with them up.
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Post by 05astock on Jun 18, 2012 5:33:43 GMT -5
Im pretty deaf, but even if that wasnt the case I dont think Id hear anyone with my windows down.
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Post by lilgunny on Jun 18, 2012 5:57:58 GMT -5
It is a safety issue. Jinx and Ginnette run with the windows up to prevent hands and arms going out the window in case of rollover. That is why they run that way. Always have always will. We don't have window nets in autox and while rollovers are as scarse as fire. it could happen. So, hope this helps with the discussion.
Lilgunny
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 18, 2012 7:10:08 GMT -5
CCR's preference has always been for competitors to run with windows DOWN. There is no rule for up or down, just has can't be half way like others have said.
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Post by integra55 on Jun 18, 2012 10:36:46 GMT -5
I don't care if your a world champion. It's safer to have windows down. You hear someone scream it takes you out the zone. Natural reaction. And at this level non-national event where we have many novices on course there needs to be those extra precautions. I can't tell the number of times I've seen someone run out for a cone in the path of a Car fixing to come. I didn't say anything about it being safer ... just that they knew the rules and made their choice from that knowledge if you go back and re-read my post I clearly noted that I was pretty sure that they knew the rules ( and implied that they were acting accordingly ) |
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Post by integra55 on Jun 18, 2012 10:41:01 GMT -5
It's a bit of a safety issue too, though. Road racing doesn't allow windows because workers need to have access to communicate with the driver in the event that something happens. Let's say, just to pluck a completely random scenario completely randomly out of the air.... if a Honda engine were to let go at an event... WAY out on the far side of the course.... well away from the emergency vehicles... and it were to catch on fire because it put a piston through the block and dumped oil on hot headers... having windows down gives an extra escape route plus access for whatever worker responds carrying the fire extinguisher. Again, completely random depends on what level of road racing you're talking about  and if anyone knows how to re-size this photo ... please do so ;D |
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Post by srduck on Jun 18, 2012 11:18:51 GMT -5
depends on what level of road racing you're talking about There's still a method for the workers to get to a driver there. Look at the hole in the window with "LATCH^" below it |
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Post by toilets on Jun 18, 2012 13:57:25 GMT -5
I think there should be a rendering to the rule. Required to have windows down if you have window tint. My camaro had 2% window tint ( yes 2 percent) all the way around and 35% on the entire front windshield. You cannot see in the car whatsoever. if I were to keep them up for some type of aero advantage I think that would have been a major safefy issue. I always had them down.
But my take on this issue is, if the driver is able to be seen by a corner worker then up or down should not be an issue.
In regards to road racing (lower levels) and hpde events, we are required to have them down for multiple reasons. Indicating that I am pitting is just one of several examples.
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Post by yeahdoug on Jun 18, 2012 14:09:02 GMT -5
Leave the rule the way it is at the national level. Up or down. There are safety advantages both ways so leave it up to the driver.
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 18, 2012 14:21:21 GMT -5
and if anyone knows how to re-size this photo ... please do so ;D Edit the code, add a width and height to it... ![]() would become ![]() |
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Post by integra55 on Jun 18, 2012 16:38:40 GMT -5
thanks Rich ... with my knowledge about computers and the affect of aging on my memory if i don't bookmark this I won't remember by tomorrow morning LOL
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Post by cr89x on Jun 18, 2012 18:05:45 GMT -5
Thank you Doug. Each region is given leway to do as they please, so to say, but most (myself included) like to do things close to National.
I know how hard it can be to hear when you are focused on going fast. I have had numerous times that yelling HAS gotten my attention from course workers. Something that road racers are taught is to always look at the corner stations for signals (ie flags or hand signs). This is difficult, but a good habit to get into even at our level. I'm as guilty as anyone for running past a red flag or three. I've worked on that.
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Post by integra55 on Jun 18, 2012 18:38:18 GMT -5
therein lies a large part of the problem ... acting as the red flag person is a VERY tough and potentially dangerous job .... yes yelling helps ... sometimes .... more useful is the flagger being extremely proactive .. as in putting yourself out near the course .. waving the flag VERY vigorously ... yeah it can get somewhat pucker inducing ... still if a red flag is actually needed then the flagger needs to do what's necessary to get the driver to stop
I can't begin to count the amt of times I've seen the flagger standing way back at the worker station and sorta ... hesitantly moving the flag in small circles ... and not understanding why the driver doesn't stop
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 19, 2012 6:59:06 GMT -5
thanks Rich ... with my knowledge about computers and the affect of aging on my memory if i don't bookmark this I won't remember by tomorrow morning LOL It took me 10 minutes to find out how to do it... had to search the support site for Proboards, so it wasn't easy to find. I updated the "how to post a pic" thread under the For Sale section. |
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Post by grey ghost on Jun 19, 2012 14:19:26 GMT -5
my 2 cents, let the competitor decide which is best for him if not against the national rules.  |
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Post by drum3 on Jun 19, 2012 16:59:49 GMT -5
It is a safety issue. Jinx and Ginnette run with the windows up to prevent hands and arms going out the window in case of rollover. That is why they run that way. Always have always will. We don't have window nets in autox and while rollovers are as scarse as fire. it could happen. So, hope this helps with the discussion. Lilgunny Jinx runs them up for the aero advantage ! |
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Post by autoxcrx on Jun 20, 2012 7:09:44 GMT -5
It is a safety issue. Jinx and Ginnette run with the windows up to prevent hands and arms going out the window in case of rollover.Lilgunny Windows up or down, by the rules, it's the drivers choice, period. I prefer them open. No problem with those who want them up. But to think that having them up will keep arms, body parts, in the car in the event of a rollover is crazy, unless you have replaced the stock safety glass with lexan or something else. If you roll it with the stock glass your gonna get a face full of glass! A million little pieces of glass! |
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