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Post by integra55 on Jun 30, 2012 8:21:17 GMT -5
^Go tell Rick Ruth that pax is pointless. ok, I'll bite ... who is Rick Ruth ? the only "good" I see about PAX is if you take part in Pro Solo ... or any of the various "shoot-outs" that are out there .... otherwise . blehhhhhh |
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Post by cr89x on Jun 30, 2012 9:49:47 GMT -5
Walter, I can't tell if your serious :/ Rick Ruth is the genius behind the pax calculations. Which Adam ... He does take A LOT of time studying and calculating results from Nationals, National events, and many regions that hold numerous top level drivers. The numbers are fairly close to right. In the Carolinas PAX is something we watch because, and there are more reasons, we have some many interclub competitions that are based off of PAX like the Carolina Cup and NCAC.
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Post by integra55 on Jun 30, 2012 10:33:19 GMT -5
AJ, I was serious ( I really didn't know who he was/is )... since I really don't care about PAX .. including our "competitions" with other regions, etc... all I can do is drive as quickly and cleanly as I possibly can ... the pts for those competitions will fall where they do without my worrying about them LOL
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Post by SteveCouture on Jun 30, 2012 10:41:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't say PAX (or RTP) is pointless - it does provide a convenient means of comparison. But what it cannot do is yield an *absolute* ranking (although that is always how it is applied). If you finish in the top 10 PAX results, chances are you are driving well and getting the most out of your vehicle. However, if you finish 1st in PAX results that does not necessarily mean you are the best driver with the best car at the event.
Edit to add: Rick is a great guy who provides a valuable service to the solo community. He'll be the first to admit that the numbers are simply statistical representatives of the data he's collected. My issue is that many then take these statistics as gospel instead of recognizing them as merely numerical representations of past results which may or may not correlate to current/future results and conditions.
H & K
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Post by yellow CR on Jun 30, 2012 12:59:02 GMT -5
RAW is more pointless than PAX. RAW is a representation of how good your vehicle is, and I have seen many average driver get an FTD because they are in a kart or a Mod car. FTP is a truer indication or how good the driver is, and I have never seen an average driver get an FTP.
PAX does have small flaws, but it is a very accurate representation of what your vehicle is capable of doing, in comparison of other vehicles. And Rick Ruth does do tons of calculations each year of top tier drivers on the same course, its called Nationals, along with National tours, and other high caliber local events.
To get a good RAW time all you need is the fastest car on site, and you do not need national champ driving skill to do it.
PAX is a very good barometer for driver skill, and to say otherwise is pointless.
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Post by 05astock on Jul 1, 2012 9:56:12 GMT -5
To say because you got FTD raw its only because you have the fastest car, NO. Thats false. It just means that car was driven the fastest that day. Because not everyone could jump in Jadrices s2k or Mikes 350z and FTD. So theres a level of driver skill needed, yes a "faster" car helps but even that statement is iffy.
The only way to compare drivers is in the same car, condition and course. Theres no formula or collection of data that can replicate that. So Ill just improve my driving and try to prep my car more, because Im definately the least prepped car in ASP and with that my raw times will get lower as well as my PAX. So I guess the answer is drive faster, max prep the car or find a class with better pax.
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Post by cr89x on Jul 1, 2012 10:11:43 GMT -5
Yes Adam your right, but it's close.
I can not fathom the amount of work that Rick does. I'm glad it's him and not me though lol. Surely he has formulas to help him figure it out for him now. That is still a lot of numbers to look at for an incredible amount of time.
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Post by integra55 on Jul 1, 2012 11:18:54 GMT -5
you-all understand that I meant no disrespect towards Rick ... just that I'd never heard of him LOL
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Post by yellow CR on Jul 2, 2012 18:01:14 GMT -5
You mention Jadrice's BS S2000 and Mike's BSP 350Z like they are fast cars. In the overall scope of autocross cars, they are slow compared to Karts, Mod cars and Prepared cars. So yes not everyone can do well in them. Average drivers can't get FTD in a BS car, but I am talking about Karts and Mod cars like the red DM Caterham. Average drivers in Karts can FTD at every event that doesn't have a top kart driver. Look at the results from the last 2 CCR events.
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Post by cr89x on Jul 2, 2012 19:18:05 GMT -5
Walter, its ok lol.
Look at Dixie a couple months ago. I am in a Kart once a year and I still finished ahead of full bodied cars. Feeney had Kart isssues and still finished in front of cars. At least I think so. I know Bright was FAST. The fastest Kart was still about 2 seconds quicker than the rest.
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Post by yellow CR on Jul 2, 2012 19:27:16 GMT -5
I was FTP at Dixie and you out RAWed me by over 2 seconds
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Post by cr89x on Jul 2, 2012 20:00:17 GMT -5
Exactly! That course was very tight. It would have been more kart friendly without the bumps.
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