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Post by drum3 on Nov 25, 2012 8:13:28 GMT -5
I keep bringing up the point .... 91 and 93 can be used in any gasoline powered car ... E85 can't ... don't see any way around that E85 , Diesel , 93 Gasoline , all designed for specific cars and all not available at every station and not interchangeable from one type to the other . All available through public pumps . Out law one are you going to outlaw the others ? nope , if its a DOT fuel the STAC is not going to outlaw it . SAC doesnt have to because tuning is not allowed in stock . |
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Post by drum3 on Nov 25, 2012 8:15:24 GMT -5
11 states don't carry 93, 9 states don't carry E85. Not sure why those states don't carry 93, it has something to do with additives to meet emissions but because there are more states without 93 it will also fall under all the same arguments against E85. So what do we replace 93 with? 89? Then people just live with detonation? "Oh, I'm sorry, you're just going to have to blow your car up because some whiny people wanted E85 and couldn't have it." That makes no sense. E85 has an alternative.... gasoline. 93 Octane DOESN'T have an alternative. You can get 91 Octane shipped in drums !  |
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Post by drum3 on Nov 25, 2012 8:18:08 GMT -5
110 octane may be available at the pump but I'm 100% sure it should say " For Off Road Use Only" on the pump . It is not a DOT legal fuel .
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Post by drum3 on Nov 25, 2012 8:30:08 GMT -5
after doing some more research , the 91 is available mostly at boating facilities around Charlotte , at Sheetz in the area and only at about 3 other stations along 85 . 90 is also available at a few places . I use Sheetz and since they carry 91 I never noticed it wasnt commonly available . Regardless most Stock cars would run fine even on 87 , in either class OTS octane boosters are legal and will prevent knock if it came to that ,,,,,,But inside info says its not going anywhere . the twins or anyone that makes big HP on corn will just get booted up a class or 2 .
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Post by srduck on Nov 25, 2012 9:29:55 GMT -5
after doing some more research , the 91 is available mostly at boating facilities around Charlotte , at Sheetz in the area and only at about 3 other stations along 85 . 90 is also available at a few places . I use Sheetz and since they carry 91 I never noticed it wasnt commonly available . Regardless most Stock cars would run fine even on 87 , in either class OTS octane boosters are legal and will prevent knock if it came to that ,,,,,,But inside info says its not going anywhere . the twins or anyone that makes big HP on corn will just get booted up a class or 2 . So in order to compete, we should have to go further out of our way than the E85 guys do now? That's just ridiculous and you know it. It goes back to that thing about cutting costs in Stock class by disallowing the double adjustable Motons/JRZ/etc. "Well, people would just keep experimenting and revalving shocks if they're willing to spend that much money. You can't police it." Policing octane in pump gas is impossible without ridiculous amounts of testing equipment. Policing E85 is pretty easy if you have a functioning nose. |
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Post by drum3 on Nov 25, 2012 9:49:15 GMT -5
But its a non-issue in stock and NONE of the other classes are going to gain anything by policing it . If a car gets to fast for a class , they will simply move it up a class , if its still too fast they will move it again . E85 is like Rcomps and the new breed ST tires ,,, once in , they are not going to relegate it out.
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Post by philip1 on Nov 25, 2012 12:10:01 GMT -5
My Audi requires 95 Ron or 93 Ron+mon/2
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Post by Frodo on Nov 25, 2012 23:08:12 GMT -5
You can buy 110 Octane fuel at gas stations here in Ballantyne.
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Post by drum3 on Nov 26, 2012 6:12:10 GMT -5
again ,,,if 110 is available it states on the pump "for off road use only" , just as farm grade diesel , there are lower taxes and it is not highwat DOT approved
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Post by integra55 on Nov 26, 2012 8:44:20 GMT -5
You can buy 110 Octane fuel at gas stations here in Ballantyne. and it's LESS readily available than E85, making it even less likely to be considered an acceptable/allowed fuel ... |
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Post by philip1 on Nov 27, 2012 6:15:11 GMT -5
If I'm not totally mistaken the meaning of the rules is a fuel you can get easily that is dot legal. Or my take if 7-11 caries it... In Charlotte this means 87, 89 and 93. In some states the premium grade would be less but those three are readily available. Where I grew up you still can't get 100 at the pump anywhere... Something to think about.
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Post by soloracer on Nov 27, 2012 22:19:52 GMT -5
110 octane may be available at the pump but I'm 100% sure it should say " For Off Road Use Only" on the pump . It is not a DOT legal fuel . Prep cars are not required to be DOT legal. So i get to run million octane fuel , as long as the alchol level is low. |
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Post by czrider on Nov 27, 2012 22:40:06 GMT -5
Since E85 blend generates less power per gallon, therefore lower fuel mileage compared to straight gasoline, why would anyone want to run fuel diluted with alcohol? If your engine knock sensor likes more octane then get 89 straight. Where in the Charlotte area does any station offer pump gasoline higher than 100 octane? Since highway tax is charged on the 100 octane unleaded station pump gas, does anyone think that its being sold for "off road use only"?
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Post by srduck on Nov 28, 2012 6:00:00 GMT -5
Since E85 blend generates less power per gallon, therefore lower fuel mileage compared to straight gasoline, why would anyone want to run fuel diluted with alcohol? E85 is the equivalent of something like 108 octane, and it runs cooler. Guys with turbos love the stuff. |
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Post by drum3 on Nov 28, 2012 6:21:42 GMT -5
no one said 100 octane was being sold for "off road use only" . I said anything over 100 is not DOT legal and falls into that category . 110 can be bought at my local supplier and has that label
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Post by integra55 on Nov 28, 2012 8:02:40 GMT -5
Since E85 blend generates less power per gallon, therefore lower fuel mileage compared to straight gasoline, why would anyone want to run fuel diluted with alcohol? If your engine knock sensor likes more octane then get 89 straight. Where in the Charlotte area does any station offer pump gasoline higher than 100 octane? Since highway tax is charged on the 100 octane unleaded station pump gas, does anyone think that its being sold for "off road use only"? turbo guys can increase the boost to absolutely insane numbers (as srduck said ... the octane rating is in the 108+ level) |
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Post by integra55 on Nov 28, 2012 8:11:55 GMT -5
I keep bringing up the point .... 91 and 93 can be used in any gasoline powered car ... E85 can't ... don't see any way around that E85 , Diesel , 93 Gasoline , all designed for specific cars and all not available at every station and not interchangeable from one type to the other . All available through public pumps . Out law one are you going to outlaw the others ? nope , if its a DOT fuel the STAC is not going to outlaw it . SAC doesnt have to because tuning is not allowed in stock . Anthony, when I bought my Integra LS I went back and forth between it and a GSR ... the GSR "required" 93 octane .. but as the salesman pointed out it would run "fine" (just not as well) with 87 .. the on board computer would just retard the timing ( I realize this is a simplistic explanation of what all else the computer would do ) and away I'd go ... so while Diesel isn't interchangeable, 93 (in a modern OBDII vehicle ) is ... as for E85 .. I'm not aware of ANY vehicle that comes with ONLY an E85 tune ... ( I'm sure you or someone else can correct me ) to the best of my knowledge any E85 vehicle is a flex vehicle ( correct ? ) so the only one that isn't interchangeable is Diesel |
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Post by integra55 on Nov 28, 2012 8:18:08 GMT -5
I keep bringing up the point .... 91 and 93 can be used in any gasoline powered car ... E85 can't ... don't see any way around that E85 , Diesel , 93 Gasoline , all designed for specific cars and all not available at every station and not interchangeable from one type to the other . All available through public pumps . Out law one are you going to outlaw the others ? nope , if its a DOT fuel the STAC is not going to outlaw it . SAC doesnt have to because tuning is not allowed in stock . one more thought ... I think the STAC will outlaw it in ST ... just because it makes such an overdog of vehicles that were classed without the E85 hp advantage having been considered .. or they'll move all the tunable turbo cars to a class where they wouldn't necessarily be the overdog .. this to the detriment of those that don't want to tune ( and don't believe that some of the stock class drivers aren't tuning... with a "flip" of a switch they're back to stock tune ) I really don't think they'll outlaw 93.. it's just been around for too long those that feel strongly about ( as opposed to those that yap on the internet ) should be writing letters to the STAC |
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Post by Frodo on Nov 28, 2012 10:00:57 GMT -5
again ,,,if 110 is available it states on the pump "for off road use only" , just as farm grade diesel , there are lower taxes and it is not highwat DOT approved Not one place on the pump saying it's off road only. Just say'd 'Race Fuel' on a checkered flag background. |
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Post by drum3 on Nov 28, 2012 10:39:36 GMT -5
Is it Legal to RACE on the street?,, seriously if it's not there the owner is breaking the law if it can be pumped into a vehicle
Walter, they have busted at least 2 cars at Nationals for illegal tunes,, pretty easy to spot a significant gain on course and Obd makes it easy to find
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Post by integra55 on Nov 28, 2012 10:55:28 GMT -5
I heard about those ... but at the local level ( you know how srs bzns the local trophy is LOL ) ...
we'll just have to wait and see what they do ... since I don't have to worry to much in my class, I won't be doing any writing to the STAC about this ... but like I said .. if it really affects/bothers the people out there, they need to be writing letters
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Post by subydude on Nov 28, 2012 12:13:49 GMT -5
E85 , Diesel , 93 Gasoline , all designed for specific cars and all not available at every station and not interchangeable from one type to the other . All available through public pumps . Out law one are you going to outlaw the others ? nope , if its a DOT fuel the STAC is not going to outlaw it . SAC doesnt have to because tuning is not allowed in stock . one more thought ... I think the STAC will outlaw it in ST ... just because it makes such an overdog of vehicles that were classed without the E85 hp advantage having been considered .. or they'll move all the tunable turbo cars to a class where they wouldn't necessarily be the overdog .. this to the detriment of those that don't want to tune ( and don't believe that some of the stock class drivers aren't tuning... with a "flip" of a switch they're back to stock tune ) I really don't think they'll outlaw 93.. it's just been around for too long those that feel strongly about ( as opposed to those that yap on the internet ) should be writing letters to the STAC There's a large problem with how the turbo guys are viewed. On most of the turbo cars, the injectors do not have the headroom to properly take advantage of E85. Yes, you can run it on some cars and get a torque spike (I know Palotta ran it in his Evo for a bit) but the HP remains more or less the same because you're running at 100% of IDC after the mid-range. On cars that do have the head room, yes, it's an advantage. However, I think the BFRSZ is really the first car that has shown a "big" bump in ST power. In general though, MOST of the ST turbo guys are running either 93 or 100 if they are tuned with only a few looking for that last little bit to pull out of an E85 tune. I wrote my letter to leave it alone. |
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Post by srduck on Nov 28, 2012 20:06:04 GMT -5
I personally don't care all that much about it.... certainly not enough to write letters. It's just the past few months I've posted up the Fasttrack notes that I thought would affect any of our AutoXers, and after the reaction of some people on that other forum, I figured it would bring some arguing here.... and it did |
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Post by z3elda on Nov 28, 2012 20:13:44 GMT -5
most places I go are 87, 89 and 92/93
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Post by justinhomi on Nov 30, 2012 13:04:23 GMT -5
I think E85 should be banned in ST. It's definitely not street-friendly, considering how terrible the fuel economy is in cars that aren't designed to use it. It's also hard to find. I've spent some time trying to convince STS and CSP guys to run it, as it's guaranteed power, but very few do because of the lack of availability. Where do you get 110? All I can get at the pump is 100oct |
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Post by integra55 on Nov 30, 2012 13:12:54 GMT -5
Justin, it's only "guaranteed "power for some ... don't think my CRX would benefit much from it ... but I agree... if it were my decision to make, I'd probably allow it in vehicles that come from the factory set up to use it ... this for stock and all ST classes ... but that's just me, and I doubt that I'll be writing to the STAC about it any time soon
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Post by drum3 on Nov 30, 2012 13:31:30 GMT -5
Walter there is a CRX in CSP making about 4 hp across the board. That's a pretty decent gain. 5 hp in a miata is significant.
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Post by ball80 on Nov 30, 2012 16:35:23 GMT -5
Not sure If y'all know. But e85 is a very dry gas. It will really put a wear on your rubber items. Orings in injectors for sure.
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Post by integra55 on Nov 30, 2012 20:17:04 GMT -5
Walter there is a CRX in CSP making about 4 hp across the board. That's a pretty decent gain. 5 hp in a miata is significant. can't see re-plumbing my fuel system for 4 hp ... and then playing the "where can I find it " game each time I want to fill up ... 93 is available at every station between me and any of my a-x/TT sites ;D |
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Post by drum3 on Dec 1, 2012 7:51:43 GMT -5
Thats 4 peak hp , as much as 8-10hp under the peak . For someone chasing that extra .5 seconds , its not a big investment.
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