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Post by trdriver on Jan 9, 2013 11:58:26 GMT -5
Plans?
Can't make any plans until
1) I find out if we're really going with that 9 PAX class idea
2) we have a schedule of events.
Tell me those and then I can make plans. I'll still show up as often as I can, regardless, but if we do run 9 PAX classes, I obviously can't compete for anything, so I'll be using the events to a) shake down the race car or b) practice for Triumph club and VTR events. It would really be nice to know so I could prepare one way or the other. Of course one could accurately say I can't compete in ES either, but it would be fun (and worth a new set of Hoosiers) to try.
Cheers,
Jack Mc
(Trying hard to wait patiently for schedule and information instead of complaining like I usually do this time of year)
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Post by soloracer on Jan 9, 2013 21:00:14 GMT -5
Same ,here Jack. Spending a lot of money on a G/P car thinking i would be running against Mark O. May be running triad 'till i can finish an A/M car and skip pax.
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Post by philip1 on Jan 10, 2013 9:07:41 GMT -5
I'm going to run no matter what.
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Post by trdriver on Jan 10, 2013 12:50:53 GMT -5
Same ,here Jack. Spending a lot of money on a G/P car thinking i would be running against Mark O. May be running triad 'till i can finish an A/M car and skip pax. James In just a couple of lines, you have touched on some strong reasons why the the 9 pax class idea is so wretched and wrong. - it won't increase competition, it will eliminate 20-30 head to head battles and reduce it to 9 big faceless groups. - a lot of us were planning and looking forward to a certain competitive scenario and spent time and money to prepare for it - now we don't know what will happen. This is just plain wrong and thoughtless on the part of certain individuals pushing it who won't be personally affected one way or the other. Jack Mc |
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Post by kraigklip on Jan 10, 2013 13:14:13 GMT -5
STS National Champion
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Post by srduck on Jan 10, 2013 13:54:32 GMT -5
Jack: The idea was put into use at the night events this year with good success since, with the smaller turnout, a LOT of people were in a class by themselves. People seemed to like having something to legitimize racing rather than just saying "Yay! I won my class." And we're certainly not the first region to do it or even consider it.
So what this boils down to, as I see it, is.... "what do you want out of an AutoX event?" Are you coming out to have fun? Do you want to compete against other people? Or do you just want to take home a trophy? I know there are people out there who only care about that little plaque at the end of the day. The fun, the social aspect, and the competition are secondary to prizes. Moving to a 9 class PAX system may cut down on the number of people who take home fancy 1st place trophies, but it WILL create more competition and socialization since you're now in a larger pool. Yeah I want to win and be able to brag about being #1 in class and all that, but I'm going to have more fun trying to do that in a group of 20 people than in a group of 1 or 2.
What's wrong and thoughtless is not even giving the system a chance because in your circumstance you see it as harmful.
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Post by subydude on Jan 10, 2013 14:24:25 GMT -5
(Trying hard to wait patiently for schedule and information instead of complaining like I usually do this time of year) K.... James In just a couple of lines, you have touched on some strong reasons why the the 9 pax class idea is so wretched and wrong. - it won't increase competition, it will eliminate 20-30 head to head battles and reduce it to 9 big faceless groups. - a lot of us were planning and looking forward to a certain competitive scenario and spent time and money to prepare for it - now we don't know what will happen. This is just plain wrong and thoughtless on the part of certain individuals pushing it who won't be personally affected one way or the other. Jack Mc Yeah, so that lasted about two posts. Could you stop your complaining and see what happens please? And it's not a lot of people. So far I've seen....you. Please list everyone who is against this. I do have a solution for you however: Run the first event or two on old hoosiers and see what it's like. If you don't like it, mention it ONCE to the correct people, and then see what happens. If nothing happens, feel free to bash people, then leave. If you DO like it, apologize like a man and ponder on the massive amount of bitching you've been doing. Resolve to bitch less and enjoy stuff more. Then buy the set of hoosiers you were talking about and run the rest of the events with pride. After all, pride is about the only thing an ES driver has  |
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Post by yellow CR on Jan 10, 2013 14:33:18 GMT -5
Go get it before the ST corn fuel rests in peace. |
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Post by yellow CR on Jan 10, 2013 14:51:34 GMT -5
Same ,here Jack. Spending a lot of money on a G/P car thinking i would be running against Mark O. May be running triad 'till i can finish an A/M car and skip pax. James In just a couple of lines, you have touched on some strong reasons why the the 9 pax class idea is so wretched and wrong. - it won't increase competition, it will eliminate 20-30 head to head battles and reduce it to 9 big faceless groups. - a lot of us were planning and looking forward to a certain competitive scenario and spent time and money to prepare for it - now we don't know what will happen. This is just plain wrong and thoughtless on the part of certain individuals pushing it who won't be personally affected one way or the other. Jack Mc You're welcome for all the work I have put in over the last 14 months. |
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Post by dasautochris on Jan 10, 2013 15:45:57 GMT -5
My plan for this year is to have FUN autocrossing no matter what class I end up in and no matter how under prepped my car is.
Thanks to all the core workers for dealing with all the crap they deal with.
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Post by integra55 on Jan 10, 2013 16:15:20 GMT -5
Jack: The idea was put into use at the night events this year with good success since, with the smaller turnout, a LOT of people were in a class by themselves. People seemed to like having something to legitimize racing rather than just saying "Yay! I won my class." And we're certainly not the first region to do it or even consider it. So what this boils down to, as I see it, is.... "what do you want out of an AutoX event?" Are you coming out to have fun? Do you want to compete against other people? Or do you just want to take home a trophy? I know there are people out there who only care about that little plaque at the end of the day. The fun, the social aspect, and the competition are secondary to prizes. Moving to a 9 class PAX system may cut down on the number of people who take home fancy 1st place trophies, but it WILL create more competition and socialization since you're now in a larger pool. Yeah I want to win and be able to brag about being #1 in class and all that, but I'm going to have more fun trying to do that in a group of 20 people than in a group of 1 or 2. What's wrong and thoughtless is not even giving the system a chance because in your circumstance you see it as harmful. Stephen, you're welcome to your opinion ( as though you need my permission to have your own opinion ) but I don't see it that way .... and this is JUST MY OPINION ... a: I don't come to the events to get the monthly plaque ... or what ever ... b: in my particular case ( and yes I do realize that the class I run in is different from several of the classes) usually doesn't need any help as far as competition is concerned ... neither do the other ST classes ( at least STX , not so sure about STU & STR ... c: don't see how it'll change anything about socializing at the event ... I socialize as much as I can as it is (once again that's just my take ) as long as the yr end classes aren't affected youall can do what ever you want ... if it's going to come down to 9 end of yr class championships, I'm one of the ones you'll loose .. I generally run ~ 20 a-x's per yr ... not being there will free up weekends for more track time, or give me a chance to run with Triad that I haven't been able to do for the last 3 or 4 yrs but again, as I've said before, the leadership will do what it thinks is best for the club ... not for just one individual .. this was just to share my thoughts ( in case they hadn't come through in previous posts ) |
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Post by trdriver on Jan 10, 2013 17:05:02 GMT -5
What's wrong and thoughtless is not even giving the system a chance because in your circumstance you see it as harmful. Its not just my (and James) circumstance - I believe it is fundamentally a bad idea that most people will not like and it will be bad for our events. I believe most of our participants are unaware of this possible change and will be unhappy when they find out at the last minute. If this is actually implemented and I am wrong and everyone (except me) is overjoyed with the concept and its a great thing for our events, then I will congratulate you and who ever else might deserve it for doing a great thing for the club - even if I still hate it. You seem to keep directing remarks at me that I don't believe are relevant and don't apply to me at all so let me clarify a few things: - I have NEVER participated in a one car class, I'm not interested in doing so, and I believe bumping order should be used to prevent the existence of 1 car classes. - Trophies? I can't remember the last time I took one home from an event and I've never finished higher than 2nd in class in a season. It should be obvious that trophies are not why I'm there. - My reasons or opposing a 9 class PAX system are nearly identical to your reasoning to support it: First place in a 3, 4, or 5 car class has been unattainable for me, but competeing against better cars and better drivers has been a good incentive to get better and the challenge has been fun and I was really looking forward to renewing the effort. When I first started autocrossing years ago, I usual ran dead last in a 7, 8 or 9 car class - pretty demotivating and not much of a yard stick to measure myself and my old car against. I expect finishing in the bottom half of a 20 to 30 car class in your proposed format to feel pretty much the same way - not just for me, but for about 100 drivers at every event - I think it will be confusing and demotivating for most participants and hurt our events. I sincerely aoplogize for using the word "thoughtless", but I see no evidence that you have tried to see this change from the average participant's point of view. Why not use the bumping order to eliminate one car classes this year, talk up your 9 class idea and see if it flys as an idea for next year ? If I could see this coming that far ahead, I might be happy to get a TR6 ready for HS and enjoy that sweet PAX factor - and James might have done something other than spend his time and money on a GP car. Sorry, but short notice (because we STILL don't seem to know what's coming this year) still seems WRONG to me. Jack Mc |
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Post by jprice130 on Jan 10, 2013 17:14:41 GMT -5
Even though I personally am in favor of the PAX based prep level classes (AKA Super Classes), I do see the point of those who feel like it was brought up too close to the start of the season.
How about this? Can we just run everything like we always have, but then also post results and maintain points for the proposed super classes as well? That way everyone can kind of see it in action for a full season before we fully commit to it. In fact, I would be more than happy to do whatever was necessary to track, maintain, and post the results at this level if the help is needed.
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Post by trdriver on Jan 10, 2013 17:20:47 GMT -5
[quote author=subydude board=solo2 thread=5695 post=70341 time=1357845865Yeah, so that lasted about two posts. Could you stop your complaining and see what happens please? And it's not a lot of people. So far I've seen....you. Please list everyone who is against this.
I do have a solution for you however:
Run the first event or two on old hoosiers and see what it's like. If you don't like it, mention it ONCE to the correct people, and then see what happens. If nothing happens, feel free to bash people, then leave.
If you DO like it, apologize like a man and ponder on the massive amount of bitching you've been doing. Resolve to bitch less and enjoy stuff more. Then buy the set of hoosiers you were talking about and run the rest of the events with pride.
[/quote]
HA! somebody else just posted they might go run Triad and you think I'm the only person against it - thats too funny!
Problem is, most of our participants probably don't even know about it yet.
I HAVE resolved every day since i became aware of this proposal to just relax and enjoy whatever happens. Then everyday I look at this forum again, see bad reasoning to support a bad idea that I think will be bad foir the club, and I get irritated all over again. Its a good thing I havent posted every thought I've had along ther weay - now THAT would have been massive bitching.
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Post by trdriver on Jan 10, 2013 17:27:30 GMT -5
[[/quote]
You're welcome for all the work I have put in over the last 14 months.[/quote]
Thanks for all your work - really - mean it.
I'm sorry if you resent my opinions - I didn't intend it as a personal attack - really - i didn't.
And you don't have to thank me for anything I have done or will try to do to help CCR - SSS is a pretty thankless job, I don't think any of us are appreciated enough, but I think we're all used to that.
Cheers,
Jack Mc
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Post by soloracer on Jan 10, 2013 17:34:36 GMT -5
Even though I personally am in favor of the PAX based prep level classes (AKA Super Classes), I do see the point of those who feel like it was brought up too close to the start of the season. How about this? Can we just run everything like we always have, but then also post results and maintain points for the proposed super classes as well? That way everyone can kind of see it in action for a full season before we fully commit to it. In fact, I would be more than happy to do whatever was necessary to track, maintain, and post the results at this level if the help is needed. Ah, the voice of reason. May be the best thing to do. Maybe not. My perspective: I.E. where i am coming from. Mark O. has suffered being a one car class. i am looking forward to trying to catch him. If Steve and Dean dig out Spitfires, I will be 5th probably. (i have a fast co-driver.) If not, we can compete in low tech old cars. Sorta like Match racing at the drags years ago. May not be the best example, just my read on it. And please, do not read in anything i post as a personal attack.Our Solo chiefs have done a fantastic job. As has our core group. |
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Post by trdriver on Jan 10, 2013 20:20:14 GMT -5
James, I think Mark O. has been running Pro class - maybe he wouldn't if he had a 5 driver similar car class to run in - that would be fun to watch - of course that kind of thing won't be possible in a 9 massive class PAX format. But that's just my opinion.
NOTE: IT'S JUST AN OPINON folks - it's NOT "major complaining" or "bitching" or a personal attack or anything else but MY OPINION.
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Post by drum3 on Jan 10, 2013 20:25:06 GMT -5
Just to throw this in . I have talked with MANY Clubs over the last year that run 5 to 12 Pax classes instead of the traditional classes . Almost all of the Clubs said their members opposed the move but because of relatively low attendance they implemented it to allow for more competition . After the first season the majority of the members loved the format ..........Just saying , its not the evil that you may think it is .
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Post by z3elda on Jan 10, 2013 20:32:25 GMT -5
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Post by cr89x on Jan 11, 2013 11:33:51 GMT -5
Believe me I see the concerns that could drive people away. But notice the biggest advocates for this change (Mike, Steve, AJ). Look, seemingly ironic, at what class they will be in for the 2013 season. Pro! Clearly the proposed change is not to benefit those who heavily push for this change, and there are a number of others. This is truly to grow as a region. Notice the goal isn't to get people to Nationals. More people care more about the regional competition and NCAC than they do making the long drive to Lincoln for Nationals.
The proposed thought if "transitioning" with conversations still in place. That is more than likely the way to go, thus back to what I said before. Run the superclasses for the events and maintain class championships. We can visit how to handle 2014 as the progresses. Short notice? There are class and rule changes that go into affect for 2013 that came out of National office just two weeks ago. Yea I understand.
Anthony, thank you for adding that fact. Glad to hear!
Eric, INTERESTING .....
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