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Post by z3elda on May 20, 2013 20:22:56 GMT -5
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Post by yellow CR on May 20, 2013 20:34:47 GMT -5
Time to get new magnets for the Elf Hearse Anything about the Audi TT going to A-Stock? ;D |
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Post by turtle8 on May 20, 2013 20:56:03 GMT -5
My 1.8 NB Miata is also going to ES. No hope for 1.6 NA Miatas.
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Post by jprice130 on May 20, 2013 21:04:58 GMT -5
So the S2000 CR's are going to SS?! Wow!
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Post by srduck on May 20, 2013 21:11:16 GMT -5
So the S2000 CR's are going to SS?! Wow! Say it with me..... THANKS, JAY!!!  |
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Post by CoolGuy094 on May 20, 2013 21:59:35 GMT -5
Lol, you should hear the uproar over on s2ki.com! Its quite entertaining. There's a guy who ran an early AP2 for years which is the least competitive S2000, then finally committed and bought a CR this year. Now he's staring down the threat of moving to SS in his new car and getting whooped by every Lotus in attendance.
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Post by stealthgtfour on May 20, 2013 22:14:49 GMT -5
ya the vettes are screwed.
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Post by jprice130 on May 21, 2013 8:28:23 GMT -5
Another thought about the CRs moving to SS....I assume this also means they move to SSP? Because right now the s2000s are classed in BSP for Street Prepared which has a PAX of .858. SS PAX is .859! The CRs stock PAX will be higher than its Street Prepared PAX!!
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Post by gxpmatt on May 21, 2013 10:20:48 GMT -5
No, they will stay in BSP, remember the stock(street) class changes are because they are switching to street tires. Expect the pax numbers to change significantly as well...
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Post by stealthgtfour on May 21, 2013 10:21:08 GMT -5
all the adventages the cr has that help it in stock are negated by the sp allowances
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Post by stealthgtfour on May 21, 2013 10:23:26 GMT -5
at most tours j would podium if he were running ss and the cars will def trophy.
the weight disadvantage vs the lotus is insurmountable imho
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Post by turtle8 on May 21, 2013 12:48:55 GMT -5
And further down the totem pole, don't ya'll thinking combining GS FWD cars with HS will kill the low hp competitors? Seems to me that will leave out many low-budget drivers (unless they all run out and buy Mini Coopers).
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Post by integra55 on May 21, 2013 15:14:13 GMT -5
And further down the totem pole, don't ya'll thinking combining GS FWD cars with HS will kill the low hp competitors? Seems to me that will leave out many low-budget drivers ( unless they all run out and buy Mini Coopers). and that isn't exactly low budget  |
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Post by kurtle on May 21, 2013 19:05:34 GMT -5
Lol, you should hear the uproar over on s2ki.com! Its quite entertaining. There's a guy who ran an early AP2 for years which is the least competitive S2000, then finally committed and bought a CR this year. Now he's staring down the threat of moving to SS in his new car and getting whooped by every Lotus in attendance. Not *EVERY* Lotus... |
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Post by lilgunny on May 22, 2013 6:32:54 GMT -5
Yup...my car has been sent to that great reclassifing cloud in the sky...time for something else...maybe competitive stamp collecting or something sane like that...lol
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Post by lancer360 on May 22, 2013 8:08:56 GMT -5
My Elise is up for sale Gunny! Should be interesting to see how it fairs on street tires. General consensus was that the newer Vettes were going to make the Elise an also ran on the A6's, but with street tires the Vettes won't be able to get the power down. This may make the Elise the car to have in SS.. Time will tell.
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Post by gxpmatt on May 22, 2013 8:31:19 GMT -5
Yup...my car has been sent to that great reclassifing cloud in the sky...time for something else...maybe competitive stamp collecting or something sane like that...lol Ha, now it will just be a little more fair for the rest of us with you on a GS pax  You will just win by less. |
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Post by justinhomi on May 22, 2013 10:38:53 GMT -5
My 1.8 NB Miata is also going to ES. No hope for 1.6 NA Miatas. The NA 1.8 Miatas were already in ES. But now the NB 1.8's would be in ES as well. They're basically doing away with the current ES, and bringing back the CS of 10 years ago. |
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Post by properone on May 31, 2013 4:13:47 GMT -5
I'm sure there will be plenty more changes and adjustments over the next few years as the dust settles. Gotta start somewhere I guess.
I find it odd that there are still excluded vehicles in Stock.. uh... Street... due to rollover possibility. Even though some of those vehicles were previously allowed to compete in Street Touring.
I am excited about the new classifications though I cannot say I'm a fan of the way the class sounds... 'B Street' sounds like the SEB suddenly wants you to become a gangsta. Or it sounds like a small town address.
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Post by 05astock on May 31, 2013 6:41:47 GMT -5
And further down the totem pole, don't ya'll thinking combining GS FWD cars with HS will kill the low hp competitors? Seems to me that will leave out many low-budget drivers (unless they all run out and buy Mini Coopers). If he focus ST stays in GS I think it will be able to take on the mini. |
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Post by turtle8 on May 31, 2013 18:26:48 GMT -5
I find it odd that there are still excluded vehicles in Stock.. uh... Street... due to rollover possibility. Even though some of those vehicles were previously allowed to compete in Street Touring. In general, Street Touring cars are lowered thus have a lower center of gravity. Also, they are on street tires which were less sticky than r-comps. Those modifications should help eliminate the rollover possibility. |
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Post by integra55 on May 31, 2013 19:14:40 GMT -5
I think he was referring to the street tire thing ... without consideration to the lowering/stiffening ... just the stock class becoming street (200 tw)
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Post by turtle8 on May 31, 2013 21:51:48 GMT -5
I think he was referring to the street tire thing ... without consideration to the lowering/stiffening ... just the stock class becoming street (200 tw) I sure wouldn't want to autocross a car the likes of a stock, first gen Focus. They just seem so tippy. Same goes for a Sonic. |
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Post by xeric13x on May 31, 2013 22:13:32 GMT -5
And further down the totem pole, don't ya'll thinking combining GS FWD cars with HS will kill the low hp competitors? Seems to me that will leave out many low-budget drivers (unless they all run out and buy Mini Coopers). If he focus ST stays in GS I think it will be able to take on the mini. I totally over drove my ST (spent a lot of time sideways) and didn't have any clean runs on Monday and still took GS. It was only by ~.02, but would have been 2 seconds w/o the cone. The car is showroom stock including tires and I haven't auto-x'd in about 4 years. I think the power difference between an ST and non-S Mini is too much to get over for the Mini. I'd like to drive both and compare handling. The ST seemed fairly forgiving, does NOT understeer, and seemed fairly easy to drive well, but that could just be experience talking. If they are trying to even out competition and increase retention rates, some of these changes will definitely help, but most of them don't make any sense. |
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Post by cr89x on Jun 2, 2013 11:23:49 GMT -5
Sean makes a GREAT point! A good example of the first gen xb being stock exempt for rollover risk was due to sway bars. With stiffer sway bars the car was a lot more settled. I'm sure Eric can attest to this being a former first gen xb st driver.
Yes lowering and stiffer springs also help, per st rules. I think with the new Street allowances the exclusion, rollover risk, list needs to be looked over again. although in order for cars to be included there has to be enforcement of the mods being done, at least on a regional level.
The s2000 and Elise super street battle will be VERY interesting to watch. I believe Honda has the slight edge though.
The combining g and hs has me baffled as well. I'm not too sure about that move. Along with bumping CS cars to ES. That just seems odd. The mr2 and celica are not going to be as good taking away r comps. Having ALL Miatas, excluding speeds of course, in the same street class isn't going to buff out for the NA drivers.
Overall, it is nice to see the SCCA getting away from its "that's the way we've always done it" mindset and doing something different. ST was an experiment that has been VERY WELL received by the membership. Shoot, STX and STR have been the largest classes at many national events with SS being HUGE as well. You'll see the shift next year though. I don't see ST classes being affected too much nationally, but street class will definitely see large gains at regional events.
All in all, kudos SCCA!
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Post by yellow CR on Jun 2, 2013 12:06:20 GMT -5
Welcome to the beginning of some growing pain.
I am sure with the new moves, somethings will be out of order for at least a couple of years, as new class line need to be defined. Short term, it will be a bit of a mess, but the long term it will be an improvement.
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Post by xeric13x on Jun 2, 2013 13:46:42 GMT -5
Sean makes a GREAT point! A good example of the first gen xb being stock exempt for rollover risk was due to sway bars. With stiffer sway bars the car was a lot more settled. I'm sure Eric can attest to this being a former first gen xb st driver. Yes lowering and stiffer springs also help, per st rules. I think with the new Street allowances the exclusion, rollover risk, list needs to be looked over again. although in order for cars to be included there has to be enforcement of the mods being done, at least on a regional level. The s2000 and Elise super street battle will be VERY interesting to watch. I believe Honda has the slight edge though. The combining g and hs has me baffled as well. I'm not too sure about that move. Along with bumping CS cars to ES. That just seems odd. The mr2 and celica are not going to be as good taking away r comps. Having ALL Miatas, excluding speeds of course, in the same street class isn't going to buff out for the NA drivers. Overall, it is nice to see the SCCA getting away from its "that's the way we've always done it" mindset and doing something different. ST was an experiment that has been VERY WELL received by the membership. Shoot, STX and STR have been the largest classes at many national events with SS being HUGE as well. You'll see the shift next year though. I don't see ST classes being affected too much nationally, but street class will definitely see large gains at regional events. All in all, kudos SCCA! I think AJ is right about reevaluating some high risk cars. IDK how I feel about enforcing certain suspension rules. Maybe enforce no stupid driving which brings up something else that I think has been talked about when I stopped doing this a few years ago. Have some sort of Novice ambassador program in the region to show n00bs the ropes. The xB was the car I learned to auto-x in and was my first auto-x car. It is a lot more stable than most people gave it credit for, but it should definitely not be on stickier tires than ST allows. Even with running insanely high pressures in the Falken's, it still rolled over hard on the sidewalls. Mine had stock suspension and I think the tires dropped it about .25-.5". Occasionally, it would oversteer, but it mostly pushed bad into turns and I can see an overzealous driver doing something stupid in one. Lopez and I codrove it at an event at Triad a few years ago and even he never came close to getting it on two wheels, but suspension would definitely settle car. SCCA has given us a lot to think about. |
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Post by Frodo on Jun 2, 2013 13:51:30 GMT -5
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Post by trdriver on Jun 3, 2013 20:23:58 GMT -5
I am pleased to announce that I have nothing to say about this topic.
;D
Cheers,
Jack Mc
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Post by properone on Jun 4, 2013 3:09:53 GMT -5
Yes, the street tires aspect is what I was referring to. While ST rules allow ride height changes.. if i took a stock XB to an autocross two years ago I could autocross it.. in ST. I could not throw some R comps on it and run say.. H Stock. Which is why it was excluded. I assume this allowance is simply something overlooked in the short term. I did find it interesting.
The new rules do have my mental gears turning -- I've been debating going to stock class for a while for budget/time/priority considerations in my personal life. This does make it a little easier to consider.
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You will just win by less.
