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Post by Frodo on Apr 3, 2014 19:17:12 GMT -5
Well it is kinda hard to tune a modern turbo car without upping boost. Per SCCA rules it seems to be allowed if your ECU tune happens to up boost, just not mechanically changing the boost controls on the car. But yes, it bumps boost from ~16 to ~22 psi. I figured it would be ST. I'll probably just sit this one out and be ready for the next one with some better tires. I hit a corner aggressively earlier and got understeer worse than I have in a while. There's a solution for that: lift throttle over-steer. FWD trump card  |
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Post by axelripper on Apr 3, 2014 19:28:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I can trail brake it pretty good, but it could still use a rear bar. I've also been asked to go to the Autofair with some guys from work looking for some cars. Plus, lawnmower racing!
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Apr 3, 2014 21:01:44 GMT -5
Well it is kinda hard to tune a modern turbo car without upping boost. Per SCCA rules it seems to be allowed if your ECU tune happens to up boost, just not mechanically changing the boost controls on the car. But yes, it bumps boost from ~16 to ~22 psi. I figured it would be ST. I'll probably just sit this one out and be ready for the next one with some better tires. I hit a corner aggressively earlier and got understeer worse than I have in a while. The SCCA Forums site offers a few opinions on the intent of Street Touring 14.2.F. I would not take any of this as definitive, but it's good discussion that may lead to better questions. Maybe this should go on a separate thread. www.sccaforums.com/forums/aft/444727 |
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Post by axelripper on Apr 3, 2014 21:30:05 GMT -5
Yep that is about how I interpreted the rules. 1.) It is impossible to do actually enforce, especially when there is no stated "stock" boost pressure or way to easily measure it and 2.) the GM code doesn't call a boost level, it calls torque and changes everything else there in what it determines is the best way to hit that torque, be it boost, cams, fuel, throttle, etc.
Either way, I'll probably see you guys in May.
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ein86
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by ein86 on Apr 3, 2014 22:15:13 GMT -5
Cant change boost with the ecu. If the boost naturally increases from changing the intake, exhaust, dp, etc then its allowed; but having a tune that increases boost is not allowed in ST*
edit: I see I'm late to the party.....
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Post by cr89x on Apr 4, 2014 4:55:36 GMT -5
Well it is kinda hard to tune a modern turbo car without upping boost. Per SCCA rules it seems to be allowed if your ECU tune happens to up boost, just not mechanically changing the boost controls on the car. But yes, it bumps boost from ~16 to ~22 psi. I figured it would be ST. I'll probably just sit this one out and be ready for the next one with some better tires. I hit a corner aggressively earlier and got understeer worse than I have in a while. Well you are right, but that's a substantial gain. I've found that I can purposely tune to get more, or control, boost levels. You may want to consult with Anthony Hodges or Mike Casino. They could bring clarification I think. Otherwise, an email to SCCA SEB might be the best. I'd be curious to the result. Come out and learn on bad tires anyway. Learn what the sport is and have FUN. |
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Post by chilihead on Apr 4, 2014 8:16:33 GMT -5
Doesn't this mean no changes in boost level either mechanical or electronic beside incidental changes in boost from say a down pipe or manifold? I had a chipped Audi A4 Quattro and always thought it would push me to a higher class then ST*. No dog in the fight, just curious.
F. The engine management system parameters and operation may be
modified only via the methods listed below. These allowances also
apply to forced induction cars, except that no changes to standard
boost levels, intercoolers, or boost controls are permitted. Boost
changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible
but directly altering or modifying the boost or turbo controls,
either mechanically or electronically, is strictly prohibited. Traction
control parameters may not be altered. Any OE OBD2 or newer communications
port functionality must remain. The Check Engine Light
(CEL) or Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) may be disabled via software.
Alternate software maps which violate these restrictions may
not be present during competition, regardless of activation. Only OE
sensors may be used for engine management.
1. Reprogrammed ECU/PCM (via hardware and/or software) may be
used in the standard housing.
2. Supplementary (“Piggyback”) ECU may be used subject to the
following restrictions:
a. Connects between the standard ECU/PCM and its wiring harness
only.
b. Must be plug-compatible with the standard ECU/PCM (no splices).
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3sgte
Full Member
Posts: 167
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Post by 3sgte on Apr 4, 2014 9:39:19 GMT -5
Boost changes indirectly resulting from allowed modifications are permissible
In ST*, ecu modification / engine parameter tables can be adjusted. If there is a table for boost, that cannot be adjusted legally. If adjusting the other tables results in altered boost, that is allowed. Torque tables really seem to muddy the waters.
I don't have a dog in this hunt either, but I've wondered about this before and this is how I understand this section of the rules. I'm curious to hear from people more experienced/ smarter than me.
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Post by yokramer on Apr 4, 2014 10:02:17 GMT -5
Well it is kinda hard to tune a modern turbo car without upping boost. Per SCCA rules it seems to be allowed if your ECU tune happens to up boost, just not mechanically changing the boost controls on the car. But yes, it bumps boost from ~16 to ~22 psi. I figured it would be ST. I'll probably just sit this one out and be ready for the next one with some better tires. I hit a corner aggressively earlier and got understeer worse than I have in a while. There's a solution for that: lift throttle over-steer. FWD trump card I thought the FWD trump card was a ridiculous pax. |
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Post by drum3 on Apr 4, 2014 14:47:00 GMT -5
No boost increase in ST unless as stated it is a result of allowed mods. The SCCA allows tuning of the ECU but specifically states Boost cannot be altered . As for you understeer ,,, I suspect that came more from over driving the car than the tires . You can learn tons running crappy tires . They teach you to drive to the limit of traction but not past it.
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Post by ball80 on Apr 4, 2014 20:34:01 GMT -5
Cindy
Unfortunately I have a coilover that broke. And can't afford a new set after fixing everything else. I hope to give you the chance to beat me down soon. I hate not being there tomorrow.
~Travis
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Post by PinkBimmer on Apr 4, 2014 21:54:52 GMT -5
Cindy Unfortunately I have a coilover that broke. And can't afford a new set after fixing everything else. I hope to give you the chance to beat me down soon. I hate not being there tomorrow. ~Travis There is always may... Duckball showdown of 2014 can wait... It'll be fun |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 5, 2014 4:30:47 GMT -5
Cindy Unfortunately I have a coilover that broke. And can't afford a new set after fixing everything else. I hope to give you the chance to beat me down soon. I hate not being there tomorrow. ~Travis What you're saying is you forfeit because your car is not adequate enough for you to beat Mrs Duckles in her fit?  ? Smdh Cyndi. She'll instill the fear in you. Haha |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 5, 2014 4:33:23 GMT -5
Looks like I need to get in the market of tuning ST popular forced induction vehicles. I can give them all the boosts "indirectly"
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Post by cr89x on Apr 6, 2014 7:09:12 GMT -5
Something must be wrong with my browser. The forum is SILENT??
Facebook is blowing up about the event. This event was AMAZING! Perfect weather and fantastic course. Record attendance was scary, but darn did the day go well.
Kudos to all core workers. Worker changes on the fly were nearly seamless, timing seemed to do well. Just an amazing day!
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Post by drum3 on Apr 6, 2014 7:17:36 GMT -5
IMO the best course ever at Zmax. The mix of speed was excellent . You had big sweepers that were left and right handed . A couple of thread the needle sections . A couple of hold the gas to the floor and hope it sticks moments . Just a great over all mix .
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Post by sfsvettes on Apr 6, 2014 9:01:34 GMT -5
Awesome event & a beautiful day
Thanks for putting on a super event
The ole CAM class guys had a wonderful time
Thanks Again to all who made this great event happen !!
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Post by sontdp on Apr 6, 2014 16:12:28 GMT -5
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 6, 2014 16:13:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words about the course. It was a blast. Just listen to Duck at the finish, he'll tell you if it was fun, in a little school girl kinda way.
My best run
Ducks best run
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 6, 2014 18:26:42 GMT -5
I talked to a lot of people that loved the course Mike. Nice job as always!
Also, 220+ entries! Way to go CCR! To get that many people 4 runs with the intermittent timing issues and the fluid clean up, is pretty dang impressive.
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3sgte
Full Member
Posts: 167
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Post by 3sgte on Apr 6, 2014 19:20:44 GMT -5
That was a heckuva course. I don't think I've ever driven one that difficult. The car was almost never settled during the entire run. I got a feel for what a good run would take, but I couldn't make it happen.
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Post by bryan22 on Apr 6, 2014 19:46:13 GMT -5
Wow just saw that I ended up finishing 3rd in the novice class. Thank you to the instructors for helping me try to get faster. I still have plenty of work but can't wait till the next event!!!
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ein86
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by ein86 on Apr 6, 2014 21:33:11 GMT -5
Great course again! Had a great time up there, despite my driving. And thanks for getting the results up quickly. As much as I hate to point it out, my 4th run is wrong, should be +1 unless that cone did the fabled back flip into the box.....
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Post by ukfpilot on Apr 6, 2014 21:34:04 GMT -5
Mike, great course. Lots of speed (I need more speed in my car, by the way). Loads of fun and a great job pulling it off with so many competitors. Here is video of my fastest slow run, but it was fun. I left a bit of time out there not getting as close as I should have to a few cones, but clean runs. Pay no attention to the pop up headlights.....don't know how that happened.
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Post by cr89x on Apr 7, 2014 4:09:15 GMT -5
Jerry that was a fairly good run! Work on getting back to the throttle much quicker.
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Post by chilihead on Apr 7, 2014 8:29:40 GMT -5
Thanks goes out to all involved in putting on a really great event. I realized I need much more seat time. And I need to do more than 1 event a year....
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Post by stealthgtfour on Apr 7, 2014 10:12:36 GMT -5
i, too loved the course. great job all
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Post by ukfpilot on Apr 7, 2014 19:23:19 GMT -5
Jerry that was a fairly good run! Work on getting back to the throttle much quicker. I see what you mean, AJ. A bit slow to get back on the throttle and too wide on a few cones. What could have been......... In my defense, though, its hard to move such big feet in such a small car.........lol |
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Post by gxpmatt on Apr 8, 2014 9:24:03 GMT -5
Here's my video:
Thanks to CCR's workers for putting on such a great event as usual!
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? Smdh
