SEDiv. Rules Committee

[Tony Wentworth]

Frankly, I don't like the idea of creating something where something already exists. We already have a built-in TT committee if we would just use it and not try to legislate via forums. The way to go about anything you don't understand or care for in the TT rules, is to contact your regional TT chair: Brian Gause. The TT rules that are now in place have served this activity well for the nearly 5 years I've been running TT's and they serve just as well now.

The regional TT chairs are the only "committee" we need. The TT rules are based on the GCR. They are designed to control our activity and make it enjoyable, competitive and above all, safe. Our regional chair has been in TT for much longer than most of us have been in SCCA. He well understands the rules and has been making an effort to explain and clarify questions for you. This forum is no place to try to make changes if the way business is conducted. We have a board of directors, specialty chiefs who you can contact in many ways to discuss what's on your mind.

I know that one of the issues that has been raised is SAFETY battery cut-off switches. Some have asked why they have to have one and others have said they don't want to "cut up" their cars to put one on. The "why" is like any other rule: it's there for a reason-to protect the driver and emergency in the event of an accident for example, a rollover where the driver cannot turn off the car's ignition. Killing the battery power protects workers and drivers and should not be a contentious issue.

As to "cutting" up a street car, well a TT street prepared car is a RACE CAR. You bolt or weld in a roll bar/cage, bolt in an aluminum seat with 5 or 6 point harness and otherwise modify the car for safe racing. With a little creativity, anyone should and can find an appropriate location for a cut-off switch.

One thing we all need to remember is that the TT program is now part of Club Racing and not Solo. You drivers who have moved up from Solo are welcome with us. Just run a couple of seasons with us before you want to re-create what has already worked well for a long time. Then if you want to discuss a change or improvement, go to your ELECTED representative TT chair and have your discussion, not on this forum.

Tony Wentworth
Board Member-CCR

[MattP]

Tony said:

I know that one of the issues that has been raised is SAFETY battery cut-off switches. Some have asked why they have to have one and others have said they don't want to "cut up" their cars to put one on. The "why" is like any other rule: it's there for a reason-to protect the driver and emergency in the event of an accident for example, a rollover where the driver cannot turn off the car's ignition. Killing the battery power protects workers and drivers and should not be a contentious issue.

It should be noted that such switches appear not to be legal in most of the Solo classes that are run at Time Trials events. This would tend to be yet another impediment for a driver to 'move up' (your words, not mine) from Solo to Time Trials.

Additionally, it seems strange that a SS or Touring car would not be required to have a cutoff master switch, but a car that comes from a similar stock-based rule set like SP or SM would be required to.

[Warp3]

Tony said:

I know that one of the issues that has been raised is SAFETY battery cut-off switches. Some have asked why they have to have one and others have said they don't want to "cut up" their cars to put one on. The "why" is like any other rule: it's there for a reason-to protect the driver and emergency in the event of an accident for example, a rollover where the driver cannot turn off the car's ignition. Killing the battery power protects workers and drivers and should not be a contentious issue.

FWIW, the only thing I've *personally* ever complained about with the cutoff switches (see the TT/PDX thread in this same forum) is that the rule doesn't actually say whether they are even required for SP and SM. Those classes are simply not listed in that rule.

Tony said:

The way to go about anything you don't understand or care for in the TT rules, is to contact your regional TT chair: Brian Gause.

I fail to understand why so many Club Racers / Time Trialers (the helpful folks who posted in the TT/PDX thread excepted, of course) seem so averse to having this kind of info available to the general public? It is sad that the info that a competitor needs just isn't readily available like it is for Solo competition. In addition, when you do try to ask questions about CR/TT rules the answer is often "oh yeah, just call or email this guy and he'll help you with that question". This is extremely annoying for people trying to get into the sport only to find that the info they need is simply non-existent in publicly accessible form.

Why should the officers for the division or region be inundated with the same novice questions from every new competitor via email or phone when those questions could simply be answered once in a publicly available location (the website, the forums, etc.) and thus take care of several new competitors' inquiries at once (as well as providing ready info for future new competitors)?

[oldgiracer]

The reason that the SCCA and our region is set up this way is so you will have one point of contact from whom to get the correct information without speculation, rumor, etc. Nothing more, or less. Now, if you download the GCR's, TT rules and still have questions about your individual car (s), call or e-mail the appropriate contact in Topeka for clarification. Brian Gause has a deep knowledge of the rules and all of you should not hesitate to contact him. He has just told me that he will be at the Social on the 29th. If I can, I will attend as well.

We are not trying to be adversaries here. We are trying to be advocates as are you. All of this discussion on the forums may result in changes but, personal contact is the way to go when you have questions about the TT rules or your particular car. Please try it.

[Warp3]

oldgiracer said:

The reason that the SCCA and our region is set up this way is so you will have one point of contact from whom to get the correct information without speculation, rumor, etc. Nothing more, or less.

The same general idea is true in Solo as well that there is generally one "official" source for the rules (i.e. the SEB). However, in my opinion, this in no way means that discussion of the rules (whether it be interpretation, suggested changes, etc.) in public forums should be discouraged (keeping in mind that you should still expect to use the proper channels for officially requesting rule changes and for "official" answers).

oldgiracer said:

Now, if you download the GCR's, TT rules and still have questions about your individual car (s), call or e-mail the appropriate contact in Topeka for clarification.

Y'know, I feel like a real moron for not thinking of that. It would have been second nature to tell a fellow autocrosser to "email [e-mail]" for official clarification, but I honestly didn't even think about emailing the SCCA for my TT rule clarification questions...d'oh

oldgiracer said:

Brian Gause has a deep knowledge of the rules and all of you should not hesitate to contact him. He has just told me that he will be at the Social on the 29th. If I can, I will attend as well.

Unfortunately, I don't live near Charlotte, though, so most of the socials are about a 2-hr drive from here. I may see if I can make one of the upcoming socials anyway, though.

[markt]

Tony said:

Frankly, I don't like the idea of creating something where something already exists...One thing we all need to remember is that the TT program is now part of Club Racing and not Solo. You drivers who have moved up from Solo are welcome with us. Just run a couple of seasons with us before you want to re-create what has already worked well for a long time. Then if you want to discuss a change or improvement, go to your ELECTED representative TT chair and have your discussion, not on this forum.

Tony Wentworth
Board Member-CCR

Regardless of your preferences a SEDiv. Time Trials Rules Committee exists. It was created as an outgrowth of the SEDiv. TT meetings held Jan. 20, 2007. At those meetings Terry Ozment admitted that some rules had been inserted by editors of the rules and that those rules had not been discussed. Other rules were less than clear and needed revison. As a result Steve Tompkins, SEDiv. TT Chair, has appointed a committee to review rules and proposed changes and additions. The members of this committee seem more than willing to discuss these issues on their public forums so as to get input from participants and not have a system where rules just appear from on high. Discussions will occur on those forums and you needn't be elected to participate. No one is "recreate"[ing] anything. If so, the duplication is at the behest of the Club Racing Chair from Topeka.

TT may be under Club Racing but, it's growth will be from recruiting drivers from Autocross classes. This is where the rules start to get fuzzy. How do you incorporate street legal cars into the series? This is an opportunity for the SEDiv. to be instrumental in writing a solid set of National TT rules that will replace what has been cut and pasted before without editors putting in whatever they please.

As one who has transitioned to TT from Solo2, has one year of TT experience and the person who started this thread; who are you refering to, Tony?

I assure you, if anyone asks me about rules in TT I'll tell them to see their ELECTED representative in private.

[fv90]

I am part of the new TT rules review board. If you notice out on SCCA Club Racing TT forum I was privy to some rule changes that tended to favor a certain NEDIV rep who know squat about how we do things in the SEDIV. As this gentleman wrote the TT rules apparently he added some items not discussed in even the TT Safety Committee which he is a member of. I have basically thrown the BS flag for over flagrant use of ego and stupidity. Thos rules would have gone thru without input from the people who actually run the series. It is nice that you have a TT rep to discuss things about the series but if they are left in the dark they won't do much good will they?
At the Jekyll meeting I was approached by Steve Tompkins to be a member of this group and this group was supported and encouraged by Martin Bartlett.
I want to hear things from all sides not one and I will work for the people who make this series a great one to run in.
I cannot promise we will straighten everything out in a few days but Mr. Wentworth we have some snakes in the grass that needed to be found out. I would trust that you would hope that some rule you don't have a cllue about is not slammed in whatever you like to run before you get to put in a response. That is exactly what was going to happen.
mrothermelATmindspring.com

[Warp3]

So put the link back, Mark.

[markt]

it's www.teamtac.org it's under the Road Racing Forums.

Am I in violation of CCR Board Member Mandates regarding rules procedures in this region by posting a link to a website that openly discusses rules changes?

[pistonwheels]

Oh, Good Grief!

I do know that all of you, Tony, Brian, Mark, Steve Tompkins, Walt W. and several others were all in agreement that the rules were confusing and that the way some were written was causing concern.

I think all Tony is saying is that making sure your regional TT representative knows of your issues allows concerns to be centralized. What we all should try and avoid is mis-information going out to people.

I am in favor of the new advisory board and I am a proponent of SEDIV having a "louder" voice at National level in TT events.

I do think that action on some of the ambiguities needs to be taken asap.

Its the uncertainty that is fuelling the forum posts. I don't have any problem with people talking about concerns about the situation (certainly can't stop it!). I do agree that you should voice them (politely) to your TT rep. That person can then communicate with the Advisory board and can also relate them to a Regions board of directors, if necessary.

The best part about all that is going on in TT right now is that focus is on it to improve and progress TT overall.

MB RE.

[pistonwheels]

Keep an eye on Fasttrack - new rule proposals will be going out for member input. This will include the controversial roll-cage proposal.