Rockin' Road Hillclimb post reports

[ffhillclimber]

Just got back to the swamps of northeastern NC at 11:45 PM. I just want to start by saying that if you had a race car and a SCCA license, be it club, pro, FIA or Time Trial and did not run this event you made a BIG mistake. This entire weekend was unbelievable in so many ways. First that road is freaking wild with a steep downhill launch, at least 18 corners, so many elevation and camber changes I lost count and a 800 ft. climb over 1.5 miles. To say it is technical is a understatement. The paving company laid down some of the smoothest and high grip pavement I've ever run. It seemed to gain grip all weekend and by the final runs Sunday, I could attack corners that should never have held, but did. The entertainment, food, hospitality, actual crowds of spectators, show cars, news coverage, and our great corner marshals, all contributed to a very special weekend. Just to get away from 100+ temps for a few days and enjoy the cool mountain air was worth it. The organization at Eagles Nest is first rate and worked well with CCR's officials to create an event that will be be remembered for years. They are planning to make it bigger and better next year, so if you missed this one don't miss 2008. If you've road raced but never attacked a mountain road on cold tires, at the limit, I think you'll find a new level of excitement. Come on, climb a mountain in 2008. North Carolina now has two of the best hillclimbs in the country and they deserve our support. Also a special thanks to the Eagles Nest Resort for inviting us and all the CCR officials who put this together in about 5 months.

[markt]

Amen, Brother Stan! It was like the road was finally getting broken in Sunday afternoon. Most of it was paved on July 2nd so we probably just took off the intial glaze on Saturday. It is truly one of the great driving challenges. It doesn't matter what level of racing you've done, when the best way through a turn is to aim for the end of the stone wall then turn in just before the pavement ends and kick up just a bit of dust in front of the OTHER stone wall, you gotta love that!! I would challenge any autocrossers who are thinking of moving up to TT and want to do hills to start planning for '08 NOW! You won't regret it.

Thanks to Tony, his crew and John Turchin and his fortuitous meeting with Barry the FF driver for making this all possible.

Congratulations to all the class winners and new class record holders. See you in '08...now, I have to talk to my banker to see about getting that little place past the finish for a summer get-a-way...

[farrout]

The Huntsville crew, Paul, Drew, Steve, Pirate, and Farrout, made it home in record time without incident. Only had three cases of road rage to deal with.

We all had a fantastic time. The hill is wonderful. Pavement beyond one's wildest dreams. A very challenging course. Well run event. .THanx to you all for putting it on.

Eagle's Nest hospitality is beyond comparision. Anyone got a good banker who can get me a loan for minus 25% interest (kind of like a reverse mortgage but they pay you for buying?)

Come on down to Crow Mtn and we will show you the same good time.

[tedebayer]

Just to echo the above, great hillclimb! The course was beautiful, the road surface was perfect, the weather was just right... and Eagle's Nest is a wonderful place to hold an event.

Thanks to our organizers, course workers, sponsors and Eagle's Nest for all their work in making this happen. I hope this is something that will continue on for many years...

[ffhillclimber]

Here is a onboard video from the ol' Caldwell FF1600. I think this was my second quickest run. The battery lost power on the quickest one. The down hill run at the start doesn't come over very well.

[autoxdad]

Did anybody listen to the band 85 South on Sunday evening? My son just started playing the drums for them. Dave

[markt]

autoxxdad said:

Did anybody listen to the band 85 South on Sunday evening? My son just started playing the drums for them. Dave

AAhhh...nothing like a misspent youth...yes, we saw Tim but missed his band...caught a bit of Tater, though...Tim should've been driving the hill...

[storz]

I had a great time up at the mountain this weekend, it was my first time at a hillclimb. My buddy Dmitriy and I ended up working, I was at turn 10 he was at 11. Hopefully within the next few years I'll have a car and the license to compete, until then you can count me in for working the events!

[chillywillie]

I only have one complaint about Eagles Nest I had to leave and come back home to reality Echo all the comments of above Eagles Nest is awesome Thank You to John Turchin and everyone involved with Eagles Nest. I know this event was demanding, but your hospitality was second to none. The course Marshals were awesome as always all y'all give so much I dont know what words would give enough back for your support Thank You just doesn't seem enough. Thanks to John and Mark that were up there covering the hillclimb they put alot of behind the scenes work into the hillclimb that will help bring our sport into the line light in the future. The list of people to thank is soooo loooong, guess I'll stop here and just say cant wait till 2008 , I'm hoping I can make it to Crow Mnt. in Sept.

Willie

[markt]

chillywillie said:

I'm hoping I can make it to Crow Mnt. in Sept.

Willie

Willie v. Wally, "It's gonna be great, Rat, it'll be the highlight of their day"

[huntersrun]

It was great meeting everybody again. What a great event. You folks put on a great show. Willie....I guess we will have to call you Mr. Gravel. Check out the photos for proof. Yes you did spray gravel. Brian Gause had all the EV people moving when he came into 4 way out of shape. Good Show. I can't say enough for the hospitality from everyone at Eagles Nest.

The Photos are up as promised. www.huntersrun.photoreflect.com They are broken down by Car Types, People, Mtn Vistas and such. There is about 700 photos so doing this should make your job easier.

Let me know what you think .

Thanks for a great show and I will see you soon.

Richard Hunter

[oldgiracer]

We are sooo glad that everyone had such a good time. I'm still amazed that we were able to get this off the ground in less than 6 months and have it turn out this well. We were truly blessed to be introduced to John Turchin and staff of professionals by Garry Hill. My thanks also go out to my wife, Jane, Mark and John Mashburn for making the initial trip up to EN to meet John and see the miraculous way he's transforming and preserving his side of Beech Mountain. Special thanks to my co-chairs of this event, Brian Gause and Rich Little, their wives Lisa and Shannon for helping me so much over the weekend. Shane and Sheryl Findlan for their able assistance. Thanks to the Eckerich's and Rankins for flawless timing work, Dick McCollister for support in numerous ways and putting up with my rants at times during the planning of this event. Don Drennon truly outdid himself with how he helped us set up the corner worker stations last month and then wrangled a truly dedicated group of volunteers, some old, many new as they gave us drivers unwavering support. His grid group that Lance Russell brings that keep everything flowing like a mountain river as he always looks after us when we are buckled into the cars. Rick, Pete Mitchell, Lorette Pionke absolutely the best Start crew any hillclimb ever had, thanks. Sue Coleman's Control crew were more diplomatic than the State Department in handling the race and the shuttles and all aspects of our event. Thanks to all the drivers who came to enjoy this beautiful place and to renew friendships and begin new ones. I think Mark Seiler put it best when he said that Time Trialers/Hillclimbers are the most sportsmanlike drivers in the SCCA and I completely agree. Thanks so much to all.
Tony

[George Bowland]

Great hill and a well run event. Especially liked the weather and the worlds most scenic paddock. Also was a safe weekend, which in the end we all hope for.

I do have a suggestion however. As much as I enjoyed the racing between the Mazda drivers, I was a little taken back by some bragging I heard about hearing gravel in the wheel wells, and by the note above that seems to condone the practice, and also by the number of pictures showing gravel being thrown on the road. I'm sure there were other makes doing the same thing, so this request is for all those that left the road. For those of us that corner much faster than Mazdas do, that gravel on the road is a huge safety hazard. In 25 years of climbing hills, I have never seen as many turns strewn with gravel as I saw last weekend. John Buffum was the last person I saw put a lot of dirt on a course, and that was at his only appearance at Chimney Rock. He had broken the record at Pikes Peak that year, and came with his record setting Audi. After two runs, the event chair asked him to stay on the road, or load up his car and leave. Can you imagine asking the famous Buffum to do such a thing? He apologized and stayed on the road for the remainder of the event. At the Rock, there were enough workers to allow cleaning of the road when dirt or gravel was thrown on it by errant drivers. Since we did not have enough folks to handle the cleaning at Eagles, the rocks stayed on the road.

May I suggest that the fast way around a corner is on the pavement, and that all who ran in the gravel find the courtesy to keep it on the blacktop in the future.
George

[farrout]

Stan Vann - You sly dogg, telling me you could not match my time. Congrats on your last run getting by me by 0.061. That is what I get for leaving early. Should have stayed around to trade runs with you. Bring your best tires next year! ;D

[huntersrun]

I was a little taken back by some bragging I heard about hearing gravel in the wheel wells, and by the note above that seems to condone the practice, and also by the number of pictures showing gravel being thrown on the road.

George,

I was not condoing the gravel throwing. As a matter of fact I brought to the drivers attention. The picture was to prove that it was in fact happening. I was at 7 most of Sat and saw how much work it was to keep the track clean and safe. Cones should have been used. Bragging about thowing gravel is not right also.

Also, congrats on another "King of the Hill" trophy!

[ffhillclimber]

farrout said:

Stan Vann - You sly dogg, telling me you could not match my time. Congrats on your last run getting by me by 0.061. That is what I get for leaving early. Should have stayed around to trade runs with you. Bring your best tires next year! ;D

Craig,
I believe I got closer to my limit than I ever have, trying to catch you. I just about packed it in on the previous run but Dave and George sent me back out for one last try. The pavement did seem to grip better as the day went on and of course the tires had better temps. I did lean the carb a step and that helped too. As far as bringing my best tires, these had only two events on them so they are about as good as I have. It would have been fun if you had stayed, but I'm not going to complain. BTW, I was truthful about not thinking I could do it but I had to try. See you in 2008 and thanks for making the effort to come so far.
Stan

[markt]

George said:

I was a little taken back by some bragging I heard about hearing gravel in the wheel wells, and by the note above that seems to condone the practice

I guess I'm guilty as charged. One of my runs I DID hit the gravel at Stonewall and once on the early part of the course I dropped the left side off a bit...it wasn't my intention to spew gravel around. My apologies to all who followed in my mess. Perhaps the addition of the DNF cones would solve this problem, especially at Stonewall.

[lagunamiata]

Steve and I were talking about the gravel on Sunday afternoon. Next year there are likely to be hay bales on the apexes...

I'm getting a good set of pictures from Al Wolford. They'll be on the CCR and CCR-Eagles Nest site later today.

[ffhillclimber]

As far as the gravel thing: Let me say that the only serious crash I ever had at a hillclimb was at Hershey when I hit some large gravel and just understeered off into a small oak. These light formula cars, on slicks, just can't handle that condition, if they are on the limit. Sometimes we just have to have faith that the road is clean, when we commit to a corner. I'm sure many were not aware of this, and didn't do it on purpose and will try to avoid it in the future.

[lagunamiata]

I've been looking through some pictures - www.photoreflect.com/pr3/thumbpage.aspx?e=3084914 - and see what George is saying. Quite a few drivers were cutting the corner very close and kicking a lot of dust and gravel onto the road. We'll try to make sure that doesn't happen and isn't possible next year.

[tedebayer]

I had little or no problem on first few runs with gravel but I was one of the first few cars on those runs... then I started a run from back in the line and felt like I was on marbles on a number of corners. Hard to concentrate on line when you're slip sliding away. After one corner, I was driving and waving to corner workers to clean that corner... and they waved back and smiled! ;D "Boy...he was a friendly driver!"

So to avoid the gravel, I tried to be first in line. That allowed me the priviledge of a freshly swept clean track! On the other hand, I sat at head of line in full gear for almost 40 minutes while shuttles ran. I thought I was going to keel over from heat but ... it was worth it on that last run.

I don't mean to make light of the problem.. I am sure it is extremely sensitive to specials and formula cars. The solution sounds like two part.. one, drivers being more careful and two, haybales and a stern warning from marshalls. They said you hit a pylon , it was DNF... maybe gravel & bales needs to be included if it is substantial. Or maybe a 2 second gravel penalty would work.

In the big picture, this was still an fantastic event. Courseworkers did a great job and I hope they enjoyed it enough to come do it again and again. I'm sure we individually and as a club have lessons learned and the event will be even better next year.

[lagunamiata]

I think that Ted gets the award for the silliest roll bar of the event! Congrats Ted! ;D

[bummer]

I wrecked my DSR (now Craig Farr's car) at a hillclimb in Oregon do to gravel on the pavement. It is pretty bad when you commit to a corner and have no chance. However, I don't think haybales on the apexes are a wise cure, this just creates a whole new problem. I might suggest a DNF for any driver witnessed leaving the pavement, a subsequent re-tech to make sure the car is still fit to run, and expusion for a second offense.

That said: I didn't drive in this event, only spectated on Sunday. I am hearing much praise for the course, but it looked completely unsafe to me. No offense to the organizers, hosts, etc., the venue was fantastic, but a hillclimb with two downhill sections, the second of which pitched cars off-camber, may bottoming-out on the pavement. Looks like it would be much better for rally cars. If hillclimbs are to include such sections, we could find hundreds of places to run. Having been Safety Steward and VP of another hillclimb sanctioning organization in the past, I know this road would not have met the acceptable minimum criteria for that club.

My .02
Brad

[tedebayer]

lagunamiata said:

I think that Ted gets the award for the silliest roll bar of the event! Congrats Ted! ;D

Oh yeah?
Well, you and Shane are tied for having the warmest, cleanest dryest hands of any course workers there!!!
Thanks again to you both... you guys proved you really will do ANYTHING to help! ;D ;D

[markt]

I was usually toward the end of the group and it seemed like there was gravel on most turns from #2 on. It didn't seem to upset the car too much(I'm probably not driving hard enough) so I never saw it as a major thing.

I admit I'm new to hillclimbs. My previous 2 were last year at Blue Ridge & Crow. Neither of those roads did I even THINK of getting close to the edge, it was usually chuckholed. Also, the "chip & tar" surfaces hid the gravel from view, if it was there. It was easy to see every stone on that superblack&smooth surface.

I now see how seeming to brag about "hearing gravel in the wheel wells" would sound to experienced drivers. Please, correct me if you hear me making such foolish assertions in the future. Thanks.

[pballance]

Hi all, New to the board and this was my first hillclimb as well. I was driving the schoolbus yellowITS 240 (which still shows up as an ITC car in the results). I had a GREAT time and enjoyed the hospitality, the weather and the course. Thanks for all of the hard work to put on this event.

Thought I would share a picture that my son took from the last lefthander before the finish.

The first image is of the turn and the second of an unsual rock formation that overlooked the turn and the valley. Don't know if you have named the turn but I am calling it Indian Overlook.

teamtac.org/e107/e107_files/public/1187728653_322_FT21788_turn_overlook.jpg

teamtac.org/e107/e107_files/public/1187728653_322_FT21788_indian_small.jpg

Thanks again and hope to see you again at Crow Mountain.

Paul

[ffhillclimber]

bummer said:

I wrecked my DSR (now Craig Farr's car) at a hillclimb in Oregon do to gravel on the pavement. It is pretty bad when you commit to a corner and have no chance. However, I don't think haybales on the apexes are a wise cure, this just creates a whole new problem. I might suggest a DNF for any driver witnessed leaving the pavement, a subsequent re-tech to make sure the car is still fit to run, and expusion for a second offense.

That said: I didn't drive in this event, only spectated on Sunday. I am hearing much praise for the course, but it looked completely unsafe to me. No offense to the organizers, hosts, etc., the venue was fantastic, but a hillclimb with two downhill sections, the second of which pitched cars off-camber, may bottoming-out on the pavement. Looks like it would be much better for rally cars. If hillclimbs are to include such sections, we could find hundreds of places to run. Having been Safety Steward and VP of another hillclimb sanctioning organization in the past, I know this road would not have met the acceptable minimum criteria for that club.

My .02
Brad

Brad,
I have no problem with downhill sections and find that the famous Duryea Hillclimb in Reading, PA and Weatherly Hillclimb have them. I don't believe they are necessarily dangerous, really more of a challenge. I think moving the start back a bit would improve the hill as we could start on level or uphill and then dive into the downhill. That would be very exciting. The rock wall just before the downhill might have to be moved but I doubt that would be a problem for the management. The dip at the right hander could be filled and leveled and that would take care of that. Of course the start and finish need to be fixed soon so that course records can be recorded. That said, I really had no problem with the course as it stands. I found it both fun and challenging. You really don't want a course that you can figure out in one or two years.

[Dave Cutchins]

farrout said:

Stan Vann - You sly dogg, telling me you could not match my time. Congrats on your last run getting by me by 0.061. That is what I get for leaving early. Should have stayed around to trade runs with you. Bring your best tires next year! ;D

Craig, it's all my fault.

Stan went out after George and I had called it a day and got within .2 seconds of your time. He then got within .1 seconds on his next try. He came in and said that there was nothing more to get out of the car. We iced him down with a cold towel and gave him a bottle of Gatorade and convinced him to take one more run.

That old farmer is a study in determination. He does it all the time to me. He let's me stay close at the beginning, but by the end of the weekend he makes it look like I was driving my pickup up the hill.

Heck, I thought I had 3rd overall until you got serious. CONGRATULATIONS on a great run.

And to think I almost stayed home for this one would have been a big mistake.

Thanks again to everyone involved in making this hapen.

[chillywillie]

Boy dont really know how to start this or should I say defend myself!!!!!!! I dont know who you heard bragging about gravel in their wheel well's George but it wasn't me in fact when Richard Hunter told me I was kicking gravel up I felt he was just busting my _ _ _ _' _ and having a little fun with it because in fact I didn't hear any gravel in the wheel well's looking at the picture's it is obvious that I was getting into the gravel, I apologize it was the line I felt I needed to make the exit of that kink safe it wasn't to spew gravel or make it unsafe for anyone. I really feel though George you should take a look at all the picture's because it wasn't just the miata driver doing that, and I know that there were other drivers getting into the gravel at the stone wall and other turns as well as when I would come through other turns there was already gravel kicked into the road it would put me into a bit of a drift, I'm new to sanctioned hillclimbs but have driven a couple mountain roads before, the conditions were always changing I would just adapt to the situation and depend on my skills to do what was necessary to drive the road. I really feel that I was targeted for this situation unfairly and I also feel that if there were more picture's taken of all the drivers in other corners other than the stone wall corner you would find that it wasn't just the Miata drivers kicking up gravel. With that being said I thought this was a racing event so I dont understand why you would want to slow a course down with hay bales or cones seems like paving all the way to the wall would be a racer's choice. To everyone that I made this hillclimb unsafe for I really do hope you will except my apology if you feel I shouldn't show up to your events thats fine too we should all be adults though and express that to the individuals face not hide behind a forum as it just creates an environment for things to get twisted out of perspective, I"m a little old school when it comes to communication I feel you should say what you have to say face to face. Meanwhile I'll talk with Tony for I'm definitely not as important or famous as John Buffum or yourself and I dont want to show up where I'm not wanted or a hazard to anyone.

Sincerely Willie

[markt]

Let there be no mistake, I'm the one that made the crack about gravel in the wheel wells. It was more bull-oney than anything, I did hear a whump! going by and I was sure I kicked up some stuff...did I "hear gravel"?...not much, truth be told.

For what it's worth, I would like to see either asphalt with indentations or mortared stone between what is now the road and the Stonewall.