Rockin' Road Hillclimb post reports

[Steve Eckerich]

Before anyone gets stupid and makes this personal lets just back up a little. We saw some areas that we thought might be a problem and placed some cones. Looking back we needed a few more. Normally there is such a drop off on the edges that it keeps drivers out of the gravel. In this case John did such a good job with the edge of the road for safety that it was easy to step over the edge. This race was run "as is" and every driver is expected to use any line for their advantage. We learned what needs to be done in the future and changes will be made to fix the problems. If this was such a big problem was it brought up at the drivers meeting on Sunday? I was in the timing truck so I don't know. I can for sure tell you it was more than one driver using all the road. Message boards are great until they become a useless "whine fest" so grow up people. We have already spoken with John about changes to make the course more of a dedicated race setup. It was a great event with good friends--don't let this get out of hand.

[ffhillclimber]

Amen to that, Steve.

[oldgiracer]

Well, one of you wants to dredge up the past and another says that "in his day" that this road would never have passed muster to have a hillclimb, still another says that there should be penalties for graveling the road. Nice of you to "rain" on this event. Take the "high" that folks feel after one of these great events and foul it up for the rest of us. Good work, men!

This is the best road that any of us have ever driven for a hilllclimb. It is just as safe as any "public" road that has been used for hillclimbing. As Stan has noted, there are other hillclimbs with downhills to them. Personally, I driven nearly a half million miles in my life, many of them on mountain roads. You know what? They go up and down. I heard not one driver concern about the down hill start. It makes this road unique. We could have used the road that we returned on for the first part of the race road. We decided after comparing the two that the one we chose offered not only a better challenge to driver and car but made it longer.

Go to utube and watch a couple of the PA hillclimbs or watch the new one in Maryland. They are "granny" hills compared to Wolf Ridge and Eagle's Nest.

Since they say confession is good for the heart, I cut an apex on my second familiarization run. Sorry, George, you want to yell at me, too? I didn't think so.

Let's all calm down, follow the rules of this forum about not "bashing" others and act like adults.
Hillclimbs are by their very nature, the most dangerous form of racing. That's why they are so much fun and that is why they have been around since before the turn of the last century and will be for as long as there are cars.

Stan, you are clarivoyant. John Turchin and I have already been discussing some changes to the start almost identical to what you are saying. Look for it to happen next year. On the subject of the road, if we ever see rain again, the shoulders will be covered with grass, the gravel will not be seen as John has hydro-seeded them and says he will again. For a road that was just paved in late June, it is the most perfect pavement that many of us will see in our racing lives. You won't see RR tracks with this much grip. As for the mentioned "off-camber" corner, if you stay right of that area, you can take advantage of the fact that John banked that spot at our suggestion!

A reminder to all of us, as my wife and daughter often remind me, just because you think it does not mean you have to say it, or in this case, write it.

Finally, if anyone feels that as race chair, that I should have eliminated or disciplined any driver for a "gravel" violation or that we should dnf someone for gravel, then you can plan, organize, budget, house workers, fight for money, arrange for meals, socials, recruit drivers and workers, then you are darn well welcome to be race chair or this or any other CCR/SCCA event in the future.
Tony

[lagunamiata]

While I wasn't on the course, I did hear what the workers were calling in from their stations. Multiple cars (not just our two CSP friends) were kicking gravel onto the course. We can't blame just a few drivers for what others were doing also. Unfortunately, it's come across as just a few were kicking gravel (partly because only a few had their pictures taken), that's not the case. Drivers were doing what racing drivers have done forever - using all of the road. From what Tony has said, the gravel won't be there at the next event. If there is gravel, we'll either do something so that it can't make its way onto the course or corner workers will have to be more diligent about sweeping after runs or drivers will have to go with the flow.

Let's all get off the bickering. Our corner workers did a good job, many were new to working and to a hill climb (me included). They did the best they could. Nobody got hurt, the ambulance and wreckers didn't have to roll much for any of our drivers... in the end, that's a great thing! I remember a few Chimney Rock events where the same can't be said. Nobody wants to push any driver away from future hill climbs. Just about all of the drivers I met (several I've known for years) are a great group and we want all of them to come back and drive again. A few complained about everything, fortunately that was the minority.

I've avoided doing any editing / moderating of this thread. Everyone back off on the finger pointing and other comments. If it continues the thread WILL get edited or closed.

[huntersrun]

Let's take a minute and thank all the event organizers for a job well done.

TONY! Great job, for the short time allowed to get this event off the ground you did great!

Also many thanks to Rich, Dick, Steve E and Steven R for jobs well done with organization, communications and timing.

Don D, great job with workers....what a group and with out them we could not have an event at all.

Drivers, you all did a great job, a few of you even gave the EV crew the jumps. First hillclimb that I can remember that there were not any brought off the mountain by wrecker.

A special thanks need to go to Garry Hill for his fortunate meeting with John Turchin.

The biggest thanks needs to go the John himself for providing us with a great place to hold a Hillclimb.

I was fortunate that I was able to wander up and down the mountain all weekend, ( my legs are really regretting it) and the workers and staff were second to none!

Thanks for a great weekend!

Richard Hunter

[fv90]

I would like to say THANK YOU to all of the workers who made this event possible. THANK YOU to those who helped me get an ill car to run a few more runs (I should have done a few more from looking at the results). THANK YOU to the staff of Eagles Nest on such a fine facility.
There are always a few things that can be adjusted but the bottom line is that we all came home safely and we look forward to returning in 2008.
We from the North Bama area wish we could get some of that 55 degree Saturday morning cool breeze pumped this way.

[oldgiracer]

I might have been way tired and way pissed when I read some of the comments last night. I would like to clear up one thing: George Bowland is the best of the best and he's on the very ragged edge and I think we all know that. He just took an unfortunate angle to express his concerns which really are the same with all of us, we want a fun, safe event in all our hillclimbs.

Brad, how about finding us one of those hundreds of places where we can have another hillclimb and when you do, please be ready to talk whoever owns the road into having an event like this on it, find sponsors to pay for it all ($20-$25K) and then come to the CCR board and we'll discuss sanctioning it. I mean that sincerely. If you can find one in our territory, we will think seriously about getting it done. You'll have to "chair" it because the boss says that I'm limited to one event chair job next year.

To all thanks for the positive remarks made, thanks for the participation, thanks Richard for superb photos of the event (and support), thanks to all. Be ready, we are thinking of holding 3 HC's next year and if Brad comes up with one, then we might have 4!
Tony

[georgebowland]

I certainly was not pointing the finger at anyone personally when I talked of spreading gravel. As I said in the original post, I think there were many folks and makes that were cutting corners. And this is probably the only hill I have driven where the shoulders could be used without tearing up the cars. I wish I could take it all back at this point and am especially sad that I upset Willie and Tony, two folks who worked hard to make this event happen. As a 65 year old grandfather of seven and with a handicapped wife, I have no business driving a rocket up any hill. But I have the gift of a son who has designed such a great car that even an old guy can go fast in it. I have that age old disease that all hillclimbers have, and it is curable only by death or disability. Since I love this sport so much, I am over sensitive to near misses like I had on Saturday when I hit gravel on a blind turn. But with the passage of time, I always look at things in better perspective, and this case is no exception. No doubt the situation was much better on Sunday, and certainly the gravel was not a factor for me during my two Sunday runs.

Again, if I upset folks, that was not my intent. I was only concerned for the safety of all racers.
George

[bummer]

oldgiracer said:

Brad, how about finding us one of those hundreds of places where we can have another hillclimb and when you do, please be ready to talk whoever owns the road into having an event like this on it, find sponsors to pay for it all ($20-$25K) and then come to the CCR board and we'll discuss sanctioning it. I mean that sincerely. If you can find one in our territory, we will think seriously about getting it done. You'll have to "chair" it because the boss says that I'm limited to one event chair job next year.Tony

Been there, done that. Chaired nearly 20 hillclimbs, and I am not doing another, I've owe nothing else to the sport.

I noted at the start of my post, I thought the venue and event were great, I just didn't like the road.

As far as roads, I will gladly give you or anyone else my ideas for potential sites. There are several in Caldwell and Alexander Counties that would work well if a short downhill were not a factor, and could run near a mile even if it were.

Also, I am not alone in my judgment, just the only one willing to speak-up and risk being ostracized. Didn't mean to upset you, I thought this thread was about feedback/comments.
Brad

[markt]

Who else is going to Crow?

[storz]

Couple of my pictures....I dont have any of the cars actually running as I was working....sorry, these are just a few shots from the tech area and of my car on the road.








It was STEEP


The mighty 318ti

[chillywillie]

I would like to again offer my apologies, unfortunately my best vision sometimes is when my lips stop flapping, I was too quick with my tongue and hope I didn't offend or show disrespect to George or any other drivers I just took things too personally. Thank you again to all the course marshals, workers, eagles nest personnel and John Turchin, Tony, Rich, I dont know the names of everyone involved but it was awesome and everyone involved did an incredible job. Again my only complaint is I had to leave and come home and that we all are not up there still runnin. ;D ;D ;D

Willie

[gt1hillclimber]

Nice to see that Hillclimbs generate passions in all you old guys!!! Mad, happy, pi**ed, elated, beers with the buddies, arm chair racing, camaraderie, the biggest adrenaline rush.....

Hillclimbs make you feel alive, to the max....

All of you are awesome drivers. Damn good show up there.

BTW. George B. left some intials on a tree at Chimney Rock (as did Stan at Hershey). Take their safety suggestions to heart.

All take care down at Crow.

Mash

[lagunamiata]

I think that at the next event we need to have a driver / worker social so we can all just hang out... We've got a great group of drivers and workers. Tony has put on two great events, I'm looking forward to next year!

[farrout]

Now that you guys are all in love with hillclimbs, come on down to Alabama and run Crow Mountain on 29-30 Sept.

We will take your "pansy" hill and double the thrills and fun ;D

Yes we have a driver worker social on Sat night. Even a car show with the locals on Friday night with food and a great place for the wives to shop (Unclaimed Baggage).

Crow does not have the nice pavement but no one dares to cut a corner. We do have a few more hairpins for you.

Come on down (or up -- or over). See you there. If you need an entry form, go to www.crowmountainhillclimb.org

[oldgiracer]

OK, Farr, our hill was a "pansy"?!? Were you sandbagging? All who can, do go to Crow Mountain and help make it as good as our two. When you guys going to have more than one HC?

Mash is right and the rest of you are, too. We can do a lot to make things safer and more enjoyable. One of the things is more DNF cones on the course on inside and outside apexes. I confess to having picked up a minute amount of gravel on my second familiarization run trying to "straighten" the road. Bad boy.

As for finding more roads that can hold hillclimbs, my thoughts are that we continue to seek private sources for these roads as we have now in Wolf Ridge and Eagle's Nest. Not only are we welcome on the roads but, in each of these cases, they both want to know what they can do to hold better events. I'm going to be meeting with folks at both sites next month. I'll welcome your ideas and suggestions at: [e-mail] and compile them for presentation to them as we meet. Rich Shafer has offered more ideas and support for these events and I welcome his input as well as yours. Don't hold anything back to include anything that you feel that we as organizers did not do for you. We have pretty thick skins so be honest with us.

Thanks for all of your input to the forum, as Mash alluded, one does not "come down" for a while after one of these events. Chillywillie says it right, too in that it p***es us off when we have to stop having this kind of fun. For some of us, it will have to last through the Winter. For the rest of you, go to Crow and the other SEDiv. TT events left on the schedule and have a ball!!!

Tony

[C4Shane]

And, now from a workers perspective ~ What a blast! There were some unusual cars (The Yenko for ex), great drivers, fabulous scenery, fun folks, wonderful area to hold an event. Got to enjoy a fantastic road from Banner Elk up to the Great Camp. I would have gone there just for a vacation !!! To get to work an event like that, and enjoy all that surrounds it was a fantastic experience. I want to thank Dick M and Tony for the invitation to come up and help.

Looking forward to next year!

[tedebayer]

markt said:

Who else is going to Crow?

I'm thinking about it Mark... I'd like a front row seat for the " CSP Wally Willie show". I should know by monday if I have tme to get everything done... plus a few new goodies. How did the new tires feel at Eagle's nest and NCAC?

There were lots of people taking pics up at Eagle's Nest. Share them! <s> Put them up here!

[thewelder]

This was my first event other than autocross's and the reason I came up was to get more familiar with hillclimbs cause I would like to do them oneday. Anyways I had a blast and learned alot. I would have like to see more instuction for the workers thou. As my first event I wasn't sure when to redflag and what for. I would have been more comfortable throwing the flag everytime gravel was kicked up. Less runs but it would be safer. I also would have liked some instuction on when to cut a driver out of a car. I figured I would leave them in the car unless there was a reason to get them out( fire, on a hillside, or gas leak). Some of the workers had less of a clue than I was.
I was glad that there was an real crashes and that it was a safe weekend. Had a blast and I will see you next year( working or driving). Chad