2008 CCR Time Trial Schedule

[oldgiracer]

Thanks, Pistonwheels for thought-provoking.

The hillclimbs presented/conducted by CCR are sponsored events. Beginning with the last Blue Ridge Hillclimb in August 2006, CCR has managed to realize profits from each hillclimb thereafter. As to how many of CCR's 800 members were actually involved in putting on these events? Not many. The majority of workers come from other regions (I can furnish lists) and they enthusiastically contact me wanting to get on the workers/stewards list. I receive calls or e-mails on a weekly basis of either drivers who wish to know how to become licensed for our hillclimbs or from folks who want to work them. Our own Southeast Chief Steward is among the first to volunteer his entire family team to run "Start" for our hillclimbs. Why? Because they are FUN!!!! They are fun for everyone who participates. I don't see the same enthusiasm for track events. In fact, we have to "hire" corner workers for our events at CMP. Not much fun-quotient there, evidently

Aligning Solo I with Club Racing was a questionable move by the National BoD. If they were trying to make it more difficult for folks to move up from Solo II then they may have succeeded. Hopefully, cooler heads will eventually prevail and we will keep our own set of rules, which are sufficient and we won't be locked into RR rules.

One has to question where the natural progression is from Solo(Autocross) would be if Time Trials were to "go away". Time Trials offer a natural, reasonably priced stepping stone for someone who wants to step up, (see CZRider's effort above). However, the National BoD is making it more difficult for this to happen. Applying Road Racing rules to time trials more or less dictates that TT'ers would have to build a full-on race car to take part.

So, what do we do? First, as a club, we need to make a better effort to promote ourselves. I hear a lot about Grassroots Motorsports magazine being the official magazine of NASA (it's not). GRM covers SCCA events but as I hear it, SCCA does not make an effort to make GRM more interested n our events. GRM carried an article about The Rock-'n-Road Hillclimb in this month's edition in the "Club News" section. Beginning with the last Blue Ridge event in '06, I sent our club's mag., "Sports Car" articles about Blue Ridge, Wolf Ridge and Rock-'n-Road. I also asked our SEDiv. reporter to please announce these events in her column. So far, there has been nothing in Sports Car about these events. By the way, I invited GRM to send someone to cover Wolf Ridge (with the help of Steve Eckerich). They sent their Club events editor, Scott Lear. Scott ran the event and loved every minute of his time with us. His article has been delayed but will appear (I've been assured) in the next edition. I actually think that delaying it may actually be good for us in generating interest in the 2008 Wolf Ridge event in June. We hope GRM will send someone for the '08 WRHC.

The reason that NASA is eating our lunch is simple: they are enthused about what they do and it shows in every aspect of how they operate. They are where SCCA was 30-40 years ago, lots of interest, little politics & bureaucratic B.S. and fun events. All of their events are heavily sponsored and most of the well-known vendors attend their events, as well.

NASA has their natural progression: HPDE, Time Trials, Road Racing. The Spec E30 program is the hottest thing to hit amateur racing since Spec Miata. Why? It's fun, easy to build a car with simple rules and it is very inexpensive to get started.

If we are going to survive as a club, we need to have a natural progression and if it means that we have to expend money and energy to provide that, then let's find a way to do it! We also need to do a better job of planning our events, promoting our events well in advance and marketing our racing programs. We are not doing this now as well as we can.

The other factor in our potential future success/survival, will be our ability to attract interest in the public and attracting sponsorship for all of our events. Solo and Time Trials/Hillclimbs are doing this and making more efforts all the time. This needs to be done at all levels of our racing programs.


Tony Wentworth
CCR-SCCA Secretary


'

[tedebayer]

Well put Tony... I would like to add one thing though.

Having autocrossed, run rallys, road raced at Road Atlanta, dirt track and asphalt... I have settled on what I want to do. I will continue to autocross but I want to run TT and mainly hillclimbs.
The normal progression is to go from autocrossing up to road racing... and that is what I did. Now, in my second incarnation, I realized I love racing but I hated fixing my car from where someone else came into a corner too hot and ran out of skill - OR - someone decided the fastest line was leaning against my car on the way around. I don't want to spend the hours I used to in garage turning wrenchs, hunting parts by phone and wondering if I can get it all back together before the next race.
I don't have the budget for parts and tires, the time, the energy or the desire to work on my car all the time. I am satisfied that at 50, Mr. Penske is not going to call and offer that 6 figure contract to drive for him. Now, it's for pleasure and the joy of competition.

With TT and hillclimb, tires last longer, cars last longer, dollars go further and if something breaks, there is no one to blame but me.
I don't have to work 40 hours in the garage for 30 minutes on the track. AND instead of running the same track and working on the same line month after month, with TT every course is different. The atmosphere at TT is different, there is more time for drivers to socialize and from what I expereinced, more comradery. This may result form "shared experience" or from "time to socialize" or maybe from the fact that protests and frictions are almost non-existant in TT.

Please...any roadracers should not be offended. This is my thoughts based on my experience. Yours may be completely opposite.. In fact you might think TT is for sissies and you have a right to your opinion. There are some great guys roadracing ....and there is comradery there but to me, it is a lot different. Some road racers like hillclimb so much they do both!!!

Tony's right, the progression is there from autocross to TT and on to roadracing. IT is important that the path is there...but don't be surprised if you get hooked in the middle and never make it to road racing. One of the first signs is, you still love Formula One but you find more desire to watch qualifying than the race! ;D ;D

Willie? Mark? Others? You guys agree? ;D

[markt]

Although I did 7 or 8 autocrosses in the late 80s both here and in Maryland, I really didn't get the bug until I was 50. When it bit I wasn't aware of TT(or Solo1 for that matter) and was going to do autox into road racing. This plan went awry(for lack of a better term) when I was exposed to TT at CMP in '04 at the Solo Spectacular. I agree with Ted and would add that the nice thing about TT is that when I'm on the track I'm always in the lead and the track is clear. Hill climbs are just plain fun(and scary at times). I may never go RR at this point for many of the reasons Ted gave but also because TT is just so dang much FUN!

As far as getting more folks to participate that is just a marketing challenge, and that's no hill for a climber, pun intended. This applies to all levels of SCCA. We don't really have to sell anyone anything, we just have to make it easy to buy. With the internet and old school guerilla marketing I think we can get a nice boost in participation in our cash cow, autocross(which has seen a bit of a dip in participation this year vs. the recent past). Then we market HPDE/TT products along with worker incentives to this broad base but, it has to be on a divisional scale, not just handing out flyers at Knights but at ALL SEDiv. solo2 events, especially the Divisional events. Look at the the title of this thread, CCR puts on EVENTS, not a series, CCR doesn't really have a TT Schedule but rather does a great job of putting on several of the SERIES events, TT is a DIVISIONAL series and needs to be approached as such.

Off soap box...for now...

oops, once again, say it with me now...We don't really have to sell anyone anything, we just have to make it easy to buy.

[ffhillclimber]

Well this is interesting. First of all as for sponsorship, the most famous hillclimb in the USA is Pikes Peak. It has had sponsorship from a number of companies. I remember Chevrolet and this year will have VW. I remember Subaru was the sponsor of the Hershey Hillclimb the first year I ran that. With the number of Subaru and Mazda cars racing, they may be interested in a series rather than just one event. However looking at the Pikes Peak website I see they have a dedicated sponsorship director. www.ppihc.com/content.aspx?tabid=4&contentid=170 I know a very motorsport oriented ad agency up in Cumberland, MD that would probably take on this roll if we are serious. I would be glad to discuss it with them. I believe for a reasonable fee they could handle sponsorship acquisition for the series.
Now as for the autocross / timetrial / road race discussion: I, like Ted have done it all. Here's my take. Autocross is still the most difficult form of motorsport to be good at. In over 30 years I've made about 3 perfect runs. Therefore I believe it is the best training and I still do about 6 of these a year. I found that in the 6 or 7 road races I did that the first few laps were interesting. Often I had to save my neck or someone elses on the first lap. I can't tell you how many times there was a car spinning or sitting dead right in the middle of a turn as the pack roared in. After a few laps it seemed that the cars would string out and the rest of the race was run at less than 100%. I would start to think about saving the engine and dial back unless I was being overtaken or catching someone. Also I think I spent about $12,000 running those 7 races over 2 years. A typical weekend was about $1000 with motel, food, gas, entry fee, etc. I just found it to be a bit rich for this farm boy. I found that TTs and hillclimbs allow you to run at 110% and like Ted said, if there is damage it is you're problem. I agree that the socializing is a big part of it and running for a class record at a hill with some history allows you to sort of compete against all those that ever ran that hill. I just don't think there is anything like charging up a mountain road at 110% on cold slicks to get you adrenaline pumping.
Now about the rules. I'll just say that to require everyone to have a full GCR dedicated race car will kill it. Also as has been discussed before, a full roll cage in a dual purpose street car could be deadly, without full harness and a helmet.
OH BTW DO NOT LOOK AT THE ENTRY FEES FOR PIKES PEAK!!!

[tedebayer]

Exalt !!! Well put...

Stan <------------- What he said! ;D

[chillywillie]

Hey everybody just thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in here, besides Ted asked for me to chime in so if I p_ _ _ someone off its his fault... ;D ;D ;D My first thought is if you build it they will come, meaning drivers. We have two awesome H/C in our area and I don't think there would be a problem getting the facilities to agree on two events per site per year, you say you want sponsors, from what little I know what really turns on potential sponsors are #'s as in spectators. When you go to a potential sponsor and tell them hey we have a H/C and we max out the entries with drivers I don't think they really give a crap, on the other hand if you go to them and say hey we have a H/C and we're packing in 2500 spectators a day and its continuing to grow spectator wise thats what their after, what did it cost them to reach those 5000 people? How long do you think the presence of their product will be with those 5000 people and when those 5000 people are talking about the exciting hillclimb and the sponsors of that hillclimb it snowballs from there. In my opinion the sponsors are important but the spectators are more so because they are what will determine the success. I'm not very good at this chiming in my thoughts go faster than my fingers. I agree with so many of the comments in the other replies #1 should be publicity (build it they will come) #2 Get people educated most people think your talking about riding a motorcycle up a dirt hill when you tell them there's a hillclimb (again build it they will come) #3 build the classes up seeing multiple cars in class is exciting for the spectators they can pick out a favorite car and pull for it. It's good to have web sites to go to but when you go to the web sites there's nothing there about this years dates. Most people plan their following summer around this time of year if the information isn't out there they make other plans again the spectators are what will make it live or die and their knowledge of what is going on is what will bring them and the more spectators you get talking about hillclimbs is what will spark the interests of sponsors thats my opinion. I know this all sounds like rambling I told you my mind gets going faster than my fingers. Communication=Knowledge=Interest=Participation=Sponsors=Success. Track events and solo2 events are hard to sell because they don't draw a spectator crowd. I'm kind of biased for me H/C rule's and my goal for this year is to get up to PA and run at least one of theirs, you know case in point to what I'm trying to say I've been talking to sevral diffrent vendors with the upgrades I'm making when I tell them I'm doing solo2 and can go run track days not so much intrest from them but the more we've talked about the hillclimbs and that I'm getting out of State to run and they find out that their are people that come out to spectate the events I've have had a couple mention a possible contingency prospect they like the #'s the more people that will see their product thats what their after.

[markt]

Willie makes an excellent point,
"Communication=Knowledge=Interest=Participation=Sponsors=Success"
sponsors have to know we exist before they will commit to supporting the events. With the growth of H/C in North Carolina alone there is a great potential for NC corporations to do their "good corporate citizen" thing with us.

[tedebayer]

Hey Willie.... your mind may go faster than your fingers but your car goes faster than both of them put together!!! ;D

I agree with Willie ...spectators are important and for those that went to Chimney Rock, they will recall a WONDERFUL time without memory of bugs, loud cars, poison ivy or the fact they couldn't see more than 50 yards of the course at any one viewing point.

On the other hand, sponsors generate money to create and hold an event. We HAVE to have that money up front to rent a place, and get all the items needed to pull it off. (equipment, EMS, course worker accomodations, etc., etc., etc.) Then the spectators $$$ come in to play in making it a good thing for the community, merchants, and some returns for the Club hopefully. We need both.

And come more drivers in CSP... ;D

[markt]

A little noodling on the classes, if you take the Wolf/Nashville entries(that 69 number) and break it down you'd have had:
Street Mod 8 Entries
CSP 6
FV 5
ITA 4
SPU 4
FSP 3
SPO 3

One plus, as Willie pointed out to me, is that you have a nice mix of street based entries to draw spectators and then they live vicariously through the entries, that puts butts in the seats if you will. Folks may dream of the specials and formula cars but, as NASCAR hath shewn, manufacturer battles sell, even if the cars themselves in no way resemble what one might purchase or drive on the street.

[chillywillie]

I agree the sponsors are very important but interest ( spectators, community participation, information) that is what will draw sponsors, I didn't really mean to count on making money from the spectators to offset the costs but that the spectator draw or #s are important to make the attraction to the sponsors. If you look at nascars progression it came from what we are as hillclimbers, road racers with the exception that we're not bootleggin, but it was a group of people doing things to cars and with cars that were exceptional, along comes the late France Sr. with a vision and took it from its original form and put it in a circle so people could watch (he built it) we all know the outcome the only problem is that nascar is greedy and has put it in a controlled Hollywood environment, they are loosing spectators when they loose enough the sponsors will start going away,( believe me they already are) I guess my case in point is not that we will steal nascars sponsors, but people that share a passion for racing for driving are loosing what they love and what first attracted them to watching circle track. Crap I'm rambling again, I guess what I'm trying to through out there is there is a spectator base out there we just need to educate it if they don't know they cant be interested and there is a sponsor base out there but if they cant see the #s they wont be interested. I feel that hill climbing could grow beyond imagination if you had the SE div working together and you could possibly trickle it down to track day stuff also, how cool would it be to have say a projection screen at spectator areas so as a spectator you could watch your favorite cars progress up the course. UNC came out and did a bunch of filming at Eagles Nest wonder what they're interests would be in something like that. I could keep rambling but I gotta get out to the garage and get busy and make the Meeotter faster I've heard rumor of some pretty fast Pirates and alot of new CSP competition brewing for 2008. ;D AAAARRRRR
Willie