Time Trials School Open

[markt]

April 12 & 13 is this year's TT School and 2nd TT Points event of 2008. Registration is now open. Get your entry forms and supps here:
www.alscca.org/solo1/index.shtml

Hope to see you there...

[tedebayer]

TJ is in for school and event...

I am in for event.

Trying to Nick Hallman, Per Olaf and a few others.

C'mon.... rules are much looser then hillclimb and you can see if this is something you would like without jumping in with both feet (literally and financially)

Who else? We can all hang out together and make Skinny watch while we eat chili dogs and chocolate milkshakes!!! (Somebody tell Mark he's losing downforce! ;D)

Ross? Dave? James? I know James has a car or two!!!!!

[markt]

tedebayer said:

TJ is in for school and event...

I am in for event.

Trying to Nick Hallman, Per Olaf and a few others.

C'mon.... rules are much looser then hillclimb and you can see if this is something you would like without jumping in with both feet (literally and financially)

Who else? We can all hang out together and make Skinny watch while we eat chili dogs and chocolate milkshakes!!! (Somebody tell Mark he's losing downforce! ;D)

Ross? Dave? James? I know James has a car or two!!!!!

I gained 4# down in FLA...shimp & scallop linguine at Napolitanos is to die for.

[luffberry]

I just read the info on the time trial link on the above post. It says that an "open Car" must have a "roll cage".

I was under the impression that a Miata could participate with just a rollbar. Did that requirement change or have I been misinformed ?

Any words of wisdom will help.

Thanks

[markt]

4 point roll bar that meets "Solo1" requirements is what is needed. If you have a Miata that means a Hard Dog Hard Core Dual(or single) Diagonal will work. These are available from Bethania Garage
www.bethania-garage.com/
make sure you get a harness bar
contact the supplier for exact application.

It will take 2 people a day to install, maybe a bit more. Make sure you get one that is compatable with your rear window

[Warp3]

I plan to be there (for the TT, that is...already took the school last season). TGPR is a fun course. ;D

[luffberry]

MarkT,

Thanks for the quick reply. I recently installed a Hard Dog roll bar from Bethania Garage (hard Dog Hard Core Dual, hardtop model) in my Miata. It does have a harness bar. I was hoping that would satisfy the rollbar issue. I wondered why the link specified a cage. I still need some belts and a fire bottle. I plan on doing a couple of PDX's then step up to TT hopefully by summer.

It also appears I will have to change my stock seats for two that will work with a 6 point harness ??

Thanks again for the help

Moe

[markt]

Per the TT Rules:
11.3.8. Roll Cages
It is recommended but not mandatory that all cars utilize a roll cage as defined in the GCR.

I'm not sure why ALSCCA has that posted.

[markt]

luffberry said:

I just read the info on the time trial link on the above post. It says that an "open Car" must have a "roll cage".

I was under the impression that a Miata could participate with just a rollbar. Did that requirement change or have I been misinformed ?

Any words of wisdom will help.

Thanks

I just got word from the event chair that a correction is underway, you do NOT need a cage for an open car.

[luffberry]

That is good news. Thanks for clearing that up.

[crash477]

markt said:

Per the TT Rules:
11.3.8. Roll Cages
It is recommended but not mandatory that all cars utilize a roll cage as defined in the GCR.

I'm not sure why ALSCCA has that posted.

So roll bars are not required anymore??

[markt]

crash477 said:

markt said:

Per the TT Rules:
11.3.8. Roll Cages
It is recommended but not mandatory that all cars utilize a roll cage as defined in the GCR.

I'm not sure why ALSCCA has that posted.

So roll bars are not required anymore??

CAGES are not required, Roll BARS are still required. 4-point minimum. Get a "Solo 1" bar

The really long answer:

11.3.1. Basic Design ConsiderationsA. The basic purpose of the roll bar is to protect the driver in case the vehicle rolls over or runs into an obstacle such as a guardrail or catch fence. This purpose should not be forgotten.B. The top of the roll bar must be a minimum of two (2) inches above the drivers’ helmet when the driver is sitting in a normal driving position (as near the roof as possible on closed sedans) and shall not be more than six (6) inches behind the driver. In case of two driver cars, both drivers must be within the roll bar height requirement, however only one driver must be within six inches of the roll bar.C. The roll bar must be designed to withstand compression forces resulting from the weight of the car coming down on the roll structure, and to take fore-and-aft loads resulting from the car skidding along the ground on the roll structure.D. The two vertical members forming the sides of the hoop shall not be less than fifteen inches apart (inside dimension). It is desirable that the roll bar extend the full width of the cockpit to provide maximum bearing area in all soil conditions during rollovers. The roll bar vertical members on formula cars and other single seat cars with a center driver position must be not less than fifteen inches apart, inside dimension, at their attachment points to the uppermost main chassis member.E. An inspection hole of at least 3/16 inch diameter must be drilled in a non-critical area of a roll bar member to facilitate verification of wall thickness. This should be at least three inches from any weld or bend.F. It is recommended that steel gusset plates be used at all welds. Gussets should be at least two inches long on each leg and 3/16 inches thick.G. It is recommended that roll bars be coated only with a light coat of paint. If, however, a roll bar should be chrome-plated, it is recommended that the structure be normalized.H. Post or tripod types of roll bars are not acceptable.I. No portion of the safety roll bar shall have an aerodynamic effect by creating a vertical thrust.11.3.2. MaterialA. The roll bar hoop and braces must be seamless, ERW or DOM mild steel tubing (SAE 1010, 1020, 1025) or equivalent, or chrome molybdenum alloy steel such as SAE 4125 or SAE 4130. It is recommended that mild steel tubing be used as a chromium alloys present difficulties in welding and must be normalized to relieve stress. Proof of the use of alloy steel will be the responsibility of the entrant.Note: ERW tubing is not permitted in any GCR class car registered with SCCA after 1/1/2003.B. For purposes of determining tubing sizes, the vehicle weight is as raced without fuel and driver. The minus tolerance for wall thickness should not be less than .010” below the nominal thickness. Improved Touring roll cage tubing size is to be calculated based on the published vehicle weight minus 180 lbs.C. Minimum tubing sizes (all Solo class vehicles) for all required roll bar elements (All dimensions in inches):Over 1500 lbs. 1.50 x .120 or 1.75 x .095Over 1000 lbs. 1.25 x .090Under 1000 lbs. 1.00 x .060Dimensions are nominal. 0.005” variation in wall thickness is allowed.D. Minimum tubing sizes (all Formula, Sports Racing, GT, and Production Category automobiles, and all automobiles registered prior to June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in inches):Vehicle Weight MaterialWithout Driver Mild Steel Alloy SteelUp to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 1.375 x .0801500-2500 lbs. 1.50 x .095 1.375 x .095Over 2500 lbs. 1.50 x .120 1.50 x .095 1.625 x .120 1.75 x .095E. Minimum tubing sizes for (all Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring Category automobiles registered after June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in inches):Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy1501-2200 lbs. 1.500 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy2201-3000 lbs. 1.500 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy 1.625 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy 1.750 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy(American Sedans may construct to these specs regardless of weight.)3001-4000 lbs. 1.750 x .120 DOM / Seamless / AlloyOver 4000 lbs. 2.000 x .120 DOM / Seamless / AlloyMain hoop: 4 bends max., totaling 180º ± 10ºFront hoop: 4 bends max. orFront downtubes: 2 bends max.Rear hoop supports: No bends.If any of the above bend requirements cannot be met, all components of the roll cage shall be fabricated from the tubing size(s) listed for the next heavier category of automobiles.F. Where bolts and nuts are used, the bolts shall be at least 3/8 inch diameter SAE Grade 5 or equivalent aircraft quality.11.3.3. FabricationA. One continuous length of tubing must be used for the hoop member with smooth continuous bends and no evidence of crimping or wall failure.B. All welding must be of the highest possible quality with full penetration and will be subjected to very critical inspection. Arc welding, particularly heliarc, should be used wherever possible.C. All welds shall be visually inspected and shall be acceptable if the following conditions are satisfied:1. The weld shall have no cracks.2. Thorough fusion shall exist between weld metal and base metal.3. All craters shall be filled to the cross section of the weld.4. Undercut shall be no more than 0.01 inch deep.D. Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze welding technique is permitted, but extreme care shall be used in preparation of parts before bronze welding and in the design of the attaching joint.11.3.4. BracingA. It is recommended that braces be of the same size tubing as used for the roll bar itself.B. All roll bars must be braced in a manner to prevent movement in a fore-and-aft direction with the brace attached within the top one-third of the roll hoop, and at an angle of at least thirty degrees from vertical. It is strongly recommended that two such braces be used, parallel to the sides of the car, and placed at the outer extremities of the roll bar hoop. Such braces should extend to the rear whenever possible.C. It is suggested that roll bars include a transverse brace from the bottom of the hoop on one side to the top of the hoop on the other side.11.3.5. Mounting PlatesA. Roll bars and braces must be attached to the frame of the car wherever possible. Mounting plates may be used for this purpose where desired.B. In the case of cars with unitized or frameless construction, mounting plates may be used to secure the roll bar structure to the floor of the car. The important consideration is that the load be distributed over as large an area as possible. A backup plate of equal size and thickness must be used on the opposite side of the panel with the plates through-bolted together.C. Mounting plates bolted to the structure shall not be less than .1875 (3/16) inch thick and the use of a back-up plate of equal size and thickness on the opposite side of the panel with the plates through-bolted together is recommended. A minimum of 3 bolts per plate is required for bolted mounting plates. Mounting plates welded to the structure shall not be less than .080 inch thick. Whenever possible the mounting plate should extend onto a vertical section of the structure such as a door pillar.
11.3.6. Removable Roll BarsRemovable roll bars and braces must be very carefully designed and constructed to be at least as strong as a permanent installation. If one (1) tube fits inside another tube to facilitate removal, the removable portion must fit tightly and must bottom on the permanent mounting, and at least two (2) bolts must be used to secure each such joint. The telescope section must be at least eight (8) inches in length.11.3.7. Installation on Cars of Space Frame and Frameless DesignIt is important that roll bar structures be attached to cars in such a way as to spread the loads over a wide area. It is not sufficient to simply attach the roll bar to a single tube or junction of tubes. The roll bar must be designed in such a way as to be an extension of the frame itself, not simply an attachment to the frame. Considerable care must be used to add as necessary to the frame structure itself in such a way as to properly distribute the loads. It is not true that a roll bar can only be as strong as any single tube in the frame.11.3.8. Roll CagesIt is recommended but not mandatory that all cars utilize a roll cage as defined in the GCR.11.3.9. Roll Bar PaddingBraces and portions of the main hoop subject to contact by the driver’s or passenger’s helmet, as seated normally and restrained by seatbelt and harness, must be padded with a non-resilient material such as Ethafoam(R) or Ensolite(R) or other similar material with a minimum thickness of one-half inch. Padding meeting SFI spec 45.1 or FIA 8857-2001 is strongly recommended.11.4. HILLCLIMB (LEVEL 4)Roll cages (as specified in the GCR) are required for the following classes: GT1, Specials, Super Production, all Formula classes, all Sports Racer classes, open GT, and open Production vehicles. In these vehicles, the roll cage structure must meet current GCR requirements for the specific class. If the vehicle does not fall into a Club Racing class, the cage should be prepared to the GCR equivalent or greater (for example, a tube-frame Special car should be compared to a GT class cage, while a street-driven car that ends up in Special because of odd modifications could be comparable to a Production or IT cage).All other classes at Hillclimb (Level 4) Time Trials events are required to have a minimum of a roll bar that meets the description in this section of the TTR.If a car is running in a Vintage or Historic class and prepared to those specifications, they may run only a roll bar if no cage was used at the time the car was originally raced. This applies to all the cars with cage requirements, including Formulas (cars) and Sports Racers. Competitors are encouraged to use full roll cages if at all possible. The purpose of this tolerance is to allow for original race cars to be raced in original form (or as close as possible) without devaluing the vehicle by installing a full roll cage. This shall NOT be interpreted to apply to kit cars, special constructions, replicas, or any car that has been significantly modified from its condition as originally raced. Vintage and Historic cars may upgrade to current tires, batteries, incidental items, and other unavailable items to return the car to racing condition.11.4.1. Basic Design ConsiderationsA. The basic purpose of the roll bar is to protect the driver if the car turns over or is involved in a serious accident. This purpose should not be forgotten.B. The top of the roll bar must be a minimum of two (2) inches above the drivers’ helmet when the driver is sitting in a normal driving position (as near the roof as possible on closed sedans) and shall not be more than six (6) inches behind the driver. In case of two driver cars, both drivers must be within the roll bar height requirement, however only one driver must be within six inches of the roll bar.C. The roll bar must be designed to withstand compression forces resulting from the weight of the car coming down on the roll structure, and to take fore and aft loads resulting from the car skidding along the ground on the roll structure.D. The two (2) vertical members forming the sides of the hoop shall not be less than fifteen (15) inches apart, inside dimension. It is recommended that the roll bar extend the full width of the cockpit to provide maximum bearing area.E. An inspection hole of at least 3/16 inch diameter must be drilled in a non-critical area of a roll bar member to facilitate verification of wall thickness. This should be at least three inches from any weld or bend.F. No portion of the safety roll bar shall have an aerodynamic effect by creating a vertical thrust.G. Roll cage or chassis design shall prevent engine intrusion into the driver compartment.11.4.2. MaterialA. The roll bar hoop and braces must be seamless, ERW or DOM mild steel tubing (SAE 1010, 1020, 1025) or equivalent, or chrome molybdenum alloy steel such as SAE 4125 or SAE 4130. It is recommended that mild steel tubing be used as a chromium alloys present difficulties in welding and must be normalized to relieve stress. Proof of the use of alloy steel will be the responsibility of the entrant.Note: ERW tubing is not permitted in any GCR class car registered with SCCA after 1/1/2003.B. For purposes of determining tubing sizes, the vehicle weight is as raced without fuel and driver. The minus tolerance for wall thickness should not be less than .010” below the nominal thickness. Improved Touring roll cage tubing size is to be calculated based on the published vehicle weight minus 180 lbs.C. Minimum tubing sizes (all Solo class vehicles) for all required roll bar elements (All dimensions in inches):Over 1500 lbs. 1.50 x .120 or 1.75 x .095Over 1000 lbs. 1.25 x .090Under 1000 lbs. 1.00 x .060Dimensions are nominal. 0.005” variation in wall thickness is allowed.D. Minimum tubing sizes (all Formula, Sports Racing, GT, and Production Category automobiles, and all automobiles registered prior to June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in inches):Vehicle Weight MaterialWithout Driver Mild Steel Alloy SteelUp to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 1.375 x .0801500-2500 lbs. 1.50 x .095 1.375 x .095Over 2500 lbs. 1.50 x .120 1.50 x .095 1.625 x .120 1.75 x .095E. Minimum tubing sizes for (all Showroom Stock, Touring and Improved Touring Category automobiles registered after June 1, 1994) for all required roll cage elements (All dimensions in inches):Up to 1500 lbs. 1.375 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy1501-2200 lbs. 1.500 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy2201-3000 lbs. 1.500 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy 1.625 x .120 DOM / Seamless / Alloy 1.750 x .095 DOM / Seamless / Alloy(American Sedans may construct to these specs regardless of weight.)3001-4000 lbs. 1.750 x .120 DOM / Seamless / AlloyOver 4000 lbs. 2.000 x .120 DOM / Seamless / AlloyMain hoop: 4 bends max., totaling 180º ± 10ºFront hoop: 4 bends max. orFront downtubes: 2 bends max.Rear hoop supports: No bends.If any of the above bend requirements cannot be met, all components of the roll cage shall be fabricated from the tubing size(s) listed for the next heavier category of automobiles.F. Where bolts and nuts are used, the bolts shall be at least 3/8 inch diameter SAE Grade 5 or equivalent aircraft quality.11.4.3. FabricationA. One continuous length of tubing must be used for the roll bar hoop member with smooth continuous bends and no evidence of crimping or wall failure. It is recommended that the radius of the roll bar hoop be such that the minimum outside width measured at a point four (4) inches below the uppermost point is twelve (12) inches. Whenever possible the roll bar hoop should start from the floor of the car and, in the case of tube frame construction, be attached to the chassis tubes by means of gussets or sheet metal webs in order to distribute the loads.B. Welding shall conform to American Welding Society D1.1:2002, Structural Welding Code, Steel Chapter 10, Tubular Structures. Whenever D1.1 refers to “the Engineer” this shall be interpreted to be the owner of the vehicle. Welds shall be continuous around the entire tubular structure.C. All welds shall be visually inspected and shall be acceptable if the following conditions are satisfied:1. The weld shall have no cracks.2. Thorough fusion shall exist between weld metal and base metal.3. All craters shall be filled to the cross section of the weld.4. Undercut shall be no more than 0.01 inch deep.D. Aluminum bronze or silicon bronze welding technique is permitted, but extreme care shall be used in preparation of parts before bronze welding and in the design of the attaching joint.11.4.4. BracingA. Roll bar hoops must have two (2) fore/aft braces with tubing of dimensions at least equal to that required for the main hoop itself. Diagonal lateral bracing of equal dimension tubing must be installed to prevent lateral distortion of the hoop. (In most cases, a lateral brace from the bottom corner of the hoop on the side to the top corner of the hoop on the other side is sufficient). The following alternatives are permitted. Although installing the diagonal lateral brace in the main hoop is the strongest (and hence most preferable) alternative, there may be instances where such an installation is not practical. In such situations, the installation of the diagonal brace as shown in the diagram at the end of this section will be acceptable.B. The bracing must be attached as near as possible to the top of hoop, but not more than six (6) inches below the top of the hoop, and at an included angle of at least thirty (30) degrees. If a single brace is used, it must be attached at the top of the main hoop.C. If the fore/aft bracing must be removable, the connection between the roll bar hoop and the brace rod must be of the double-lug type fabricated from material at least 3/16 inch thick and welded through a double or gusset arrangement to avoid distortion or excessive strains caused by welding. It is recommended that the fore/aft brace be attached to a chassis member through a double-lug connection.11.4.5. Mounting PlatesA. Roll bars and braces must be attached to the frame of the car wherever possible.B. In the case of cars with unitized or frameless construction, or cars with frames where frameless mounting of the roll bar is impractical, mounting plates must be used to secure the roll bar structure to the floor of the car. The important consideration is that the load be distributed over as large an area as possible.C. Mounting plates bolted to the structure shall not be less than .1875 (3/16) inch thick and the use of a back-up plate of equal size and thickness on the opposite side of the panel with the plates through-bolted together is recommended. A minimum of 3 bolts per plate is required for bolted mounting plates. Mounting plates welded to the structure shall not be less than .080 inch thick. Whenever possible the mounting plate should extend onto a vertical section of the structure such as a door pillar.11.4.6. Removable Roll BarsRemovable roll bars and braces must be very carefully designed and constructed to be at least as strong as a permanent installation. If one (1) tube fits inside another tube to facilitate removal, the removable portion must fit tightly and must bottom on the permanent mounting, and at least two (2) bolts must be used to secure each such joint. The telescope TTR - 68
11. Roll Bar / Cage Requirements
TTR - 69
12. Driver Restraint Requirements Section 12section

[crash477]

Ah, thanks Mark!

[tedebayer]

MArk typed that whole thing on one breathe... he still has the lungs of a guy twice his size!