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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 12, 2006 9:34:34 GMT -5
Let 'em fly!! What went well, what didn't?? Give us suggestions on what to do better at the next one.
Lets try to keep the thread on track... keep the thread jacking to a minimum please...
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 12, 2006 9:38:21 GMT -5
What went well:
We finished early and had time for fun runs.
Waivers - thanks James and Jeannie!!
Tech tent and sign - thanks Ken, James and Jeannie!
Nobody broke, nobody got hurt.
I got to ride with Rick and Steven!
What didn't:
Transition times between worker groups (4 groups from now on please)
People showing up late for reg and tech - set your alarms!!!
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Post by C4Shane on Jun 12, 2006 12:44:55 GMT -5
Time between groups was a bit more difficult than in previous events. I don't want to blame 3 groups, as we have a separate thread for that. But, I will say that it seemed folks drifted up slowly (esp Gr 3) and as a result we had to look at who we had available and try to cover all the bases.
Another issue would be timing - we should get some folks to volunteer to do this in advance (I think it is one of the assignments listed by Rich) and train up some new ones. That was a delay.
It was hot... several folks complained they couldn't hear the PA in the paddock.
BTW - Thanks to all for buying every last hot dog and keeping cool with ice tea! It keeps the Hot Dog lady coming back and raises money for the club (I think that is going well).
Show up on time for Reg and Tech...the ladies (Sheryl & Sue) want to get wrapped up on time - 900am! Tech needs to be done so the guys doing tech can check their tires too. When you are late for reg, tech, work assignments, showing up on grid, or a host of other things - you are affecting the rest of the day for your fellow competitors. Sometimes it happens, but don't make a habit of it - or we will have PDawg come over and piddle on your floormats you left in the paddock...LOL
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Post by chltdsm on Jun 12, 2006 13:25:55 GMT -5
Todd Phillips here SM 610,.. Aftermath? We got your aftermath right here. This happened after the event on 85 S just before the Concord Mill Exit. My friend Dave in the Black Mitsu GST had his Timing Belt snap on him @ about 70MPH. We went over to Baggie's house to get the trailer and got the car home. Thanks Kent Davis!! Prognosis? 2 bent valves and probably a seized oil pump (cause of the belt ripping) eh.. DSM go figure. Fun event!. Jenny and I look forward to attending some more events this year for sure...
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 12, 2006 14:20:25 GMT -5
DOH! Sorry to hear of the pain... Hope it's back to life soon.
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Post by volksman on Jun 12, 2006 18:09:38 GMT -5
The part about not hearing the PA in the paddock was true, but only sometimes. It depended on who was on the mike. Sometimes it was loud and clear. I was over there when the second run group was finishing, and the guy next to me in the blue 350z was waiting for the call to go. We never heard it, but he went when it became apparent that the grid was quite empty. Still, for the delays, we finished pretty early so no big deal I think. Now for the course......... Good course, I liked it a lot. Just wish I could have found it on all four runs. I helped set up the course, walked it as well, and still had multiple DNF's that I have no idea where they occured. No one really seamed to know when I asked around either. But it seamed like a lot of people where making the same mistakes I was, mostly on the same part of the course and mostly with the same amount of experience (less than a year) Something like 73 DNF's out of 408 runs. So lets try something different. Maybe run the Novice class in the first run group while the course is still fresh in their minds, And lets get the chalk (flour) out there even if the course looks really obvious. It's frustrating to repeatedly DNF, especially for novices and first timers. I know the parking stripes there were very bright but I'm sure it still would have helped. I think everything else went very well, few glitches aside. One more thing, do pointer cones lying down count as DNF's when gone around? Possibly the workers at the stations were calling that when it's not, unless it is. Just a thought. I still had mucho fun  Can't wait for Charlotte! Can't get lost there! Thanks for the hot dogs! Greg |
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Post by lagunamiata on Jun 12, 2006 18:18:36 GMT -5
One more thing, do pointer cones lying down count as DNF's when gone around? Possibly the workers at the stations were calling that when it's not, unless it is. Just a thought. If you go outside of a pointer you've missed a gate, so you've gotten a DNF. If this is the gate - >^ - and you go to the left of the pointer (the > ) then you DNF. |
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Post by volksman on Jun 12, 2006 18:39:38 GMT -5
Yeah, I figured that. I meant when it's a single cone on it's side, no upright next to it. Not a gate. Still the same?
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Post by autoxcrx on Jun 12, 2006 19:13:27 GMT -5
Still haven't figured out where I DNF'd on my last run, anybody know?  Other than the 3 run group deal where grp 2 & 3 got screwed into working then driving without a break while the group 1 drivers got to sit in the shade before they worked,(or left early) everything was great. Saw a mention of the group 3 drivers being late to grid, IT'S BECAUSE WE WAS STILL CHASIN' GROUP 2's CONES!!! Lets not do it that way again,OK??!!? Hey on the pointer cones, anybody notice how much easier it is with green pointers like the SCR uses??? Where can we git sum green uns??? |
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Post by ROADBOY on Jun 12, 2006 21:16:27 GMT -5
I had a friend of mine watch the 2nd half of the course durin the first run group. He said that a lot of people dnf'ed at the turnaround after the slalom. Their were a few pointer cones that people were driving around, taking them out of the course, then coming back in. To help clarify, it was the sharp almost 180degree turn at the bottom of the hill.
I my-self allmost dnf'ed at that spot during my second run. I stoped and had to back up to turn and continue.
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Post by damnyankee on Jun 12, 2006 21:40:10 GMT -5
I missed those 2 gates twice!! My first run, I missed the 2nd gate and turned in short. The second run, I was determied not to miss it again, and missed the first gate!!! But, I was looking ahead!!!
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Post by jbyrd on Jun 12, 2006 22:12:04 GMT -5
A lot of people were going outside of pointer cones. However, it was a penalty in this event.
It usually isn't a penalty.
Don't know why it was at K-town.
go figger. maybe a CCR rule or sumpin'.
It's not a penalty in SCR, Triad or BRR.
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Post by Rob F on Jun 12, 2006 22:24:28 GMT -5
The drivers that went two deep in the turn around should not have been classed as a Dnf. pointer cones are not a gate as they do not have a standing cone next to them. a pointer cone is just that a pointer not a gate so no penalty. been doing this for 20 plus years at many diffrent regions plus National events. As I was asked to tweek the course I looked at them and said if you went too deep it would not be a penalty. Steve thanks for another Great event, A great last Run.
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Post by jmiklas on Jun 13, 2006 9:24:40 GMT -5
Just a question from a semi-newb here:
In the downhill slalom section, why were there no pointer cones indicating which way to go around the upright cones? Is this how slalom cones are typically laid out? Like I said I'm pretty new to this so I may be wrong, but I thought there was always a pointer cone indicating which way to go around an upright..
TIA
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Post by 6speed on Jun 13, 2006 10:38:47 GMT -5
Hindsight says that maybe we should cover pointer cones at the drivers meeting in the future. Who, at an event, has the final sayso about a rules question such as this (not talking 'bout a protest)? The event chairperson? I've seen pointer cones handled 3 different ways at various events this year (not all were SCCA). I personally rec'd a DNF for going outside a single pointer cone at a SCCA-SEDIV event this year.
I was working the aformentioned corner during the first run group and when the first car went outside the pointer I radioed in for clarification and the response was "If all 4 wheels went outside the pointer cones the the car is considered off the course and DNF". I have no idea who the responder was but no one questioned the ruling. Sooooo..........all cars in the first run group that went outside the pointer cones were given a DNF. I assume the other run groups were judged accordingly.
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Post by grey ghost on Jun 13, 2006 10:50:20 GMT -5
A Slalom is any 2 plus cones that are generally in a straight line. the course designer will sometimes put a pointer on the first one to show which side of the slalom the driver is to start the slalom on. they can be tricky ans place the pointer on the end of the slalom and the driver has to know which side to start so that they exit on the correct side. on the third choice the course designer will leave the slalom optional and not dictate which way to take it. This leads to more problems as drivers tend to try both ways and try to decide which way to take them.
thanks Rob F
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Post by MrsVlad on Jun 13, 2006 13:48:33 GMT -5
What went well --- I got a great tan
What didn't --- I did not win
I'll make up signs for the Pre Reg. & Non Reg. lines for the next event. LOEWS ,, Ya Hooo
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slobra
Junior Member
Posts: 92
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Post by slobra on Jun 13, 2006 16:05:49 GMT -5
Ok, I too was one of the many DNF's. Never did figure where I went off either time. Somewhat crazy, DNF, clean, DNF, clean for my 4 runs. The most confusing thing to me was going up the hill before the left into the downhill slalom. There was a row of pylons for the entrance of the lot. I almost went to the street before I realized that was not part of the course. Maybe at that point, I was off course and that's why it looked that way. Something was wrong when about 40% of the drivers had 1 or more DNF's. Could be alzheimer's kicking in. Too much time between walking the course, working the grid in the hot sun, and then running.
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clint
Full Member
Posts: 102
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Post by clint on Jun 13, 2006 19:52:37 GMT -5
First off, I don't think the side-laying cones delineating that sharp left after the slalom would be considered "pointer" cones. Pointer cones accompany an upright cone to indicate course direction. However, perhaps they should've had upright cones along with them, which would reduce the confusion. This would've needed around four more cones. Ironically, there were four cones unused in or near the van, I noticed before the event (the worker stations had their extra cones; those were pure extra). My own single (2nd run) DNF occurred in that area. It was partially my fault; I was concentrating more on the slalom, and didn't look far enough ahead. I found myself unable to turn sharply enough without going straight over that 2nd sideways cone, so I went around it to the right, basically DNFing on purpose. (I already have a piece of plastic bag some dumb@$$ threw out on the road, stuck to my catalytic converter, that's just about finished burning [and stinking] away. I'm not about to add cone goo to that, OK?  ) Even so, I think those side-laying cones should've been moved a bit further to the outside. There was plenty of room down toward what was a dead corner of the lot, anyway. Especially that 2nd cone. It needed to be about 4 feet further out, the first and third one maybe 3 feet, and the last one just one foot. The turn would've been just as sharp, without being such a needle's eye.
As to the 3 group vs. 4 group thing, I generally agree that 4 is better, but I've been to plenty of 4 group events, that were still slowed down by people not getting to their workstations quickly!! I can't emphasize this enough. I can understand wanting to go get lunch, but go somewhere close, get it take out, and get back on site! That's what I do, if I don't bring lunch in my cooler to begin with...
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Post by sleeper on Jun 13, 2006 20:21:18 GMT -5
Regarding number of run groups, I mentioned this in the other thread, but I wanted to repeat it here: 3 run groups should never happen again.
Anytime you have your work assignment and competition heat next to each other (which inevitably happens for 2 of the groups in a 3 group format) there will be DELAYS, because people need to finish working or running. There is no transition time.
4 run groups allows one heat spaced between your work heat and competition heat that allows you to show up early for your work assignment.
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Post by soloracer on Jun 13, 2006 23:04:36 GMT -5
[quote author=slobra board=solo2 thread=1150122874 post=1150232749 The most confusing thing to me was going up the hill before the left into the downhill slalom. There was a row of pylons for the entrance of the lot. I almost went to the street before I realized that was not part of the course. Maybe at that point, I was off course and that's why it looked that way. .[/quote]
My apologies on this one. I did waivers, and after the rush we moved the cones in hopes of keeping cars from ambling off the street and onto the course. Maybe we did not have the ultimate setup for cones.I kept my eye out for new arrivals. Was still concerned with with the possibility of a passing motorist just driving onto the course.
Been doing this since it was called "Gymkhana". Have seen locals DRIVE over cones to enter a lot. Nothing else matches granny motoring into the race line.
And some day I may Post the story of "Barney" crashing into the middle of a run to arrest the felonious racer. But only if cajoled into posting one of The most memorable faux pas in the history of auto-X.
Can only imagine the charge "impersonating a racer", "attempted racecar?"
But back to the original thread, I was never happy with traffic control onto the lot. My sincere apologies for confusion at the entrance.
James
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Post by caSSino on Jun 13, 2006 23:22:53 GMT -5
And some day I may Post the story of "Barney" crashing into the middle of a run to arrest the felonious racer. But only if cajoled into posting one of The most memorable faux pas in the history of auto-X. James |
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Post by prancingdawg on Jun 14, 2006 7:29:59 GMT -5
[quote author=slobra board=solo2 thread=1150122874 post=1150232749 The most confusing thing to me was going up the hill before the left into the downhill slalom. There was a row of pylons for the entrance of the lot. I almost went to the street before I realized that was not part of the course. Maybe at that point, I was off course and that's why it looked that way. . My apologies on this one. I did waivers, and after the rush we moved the cones in hopes of keeping cars from ambling off the street and onto the course. Maybe we did not have the ultimate setup for cones.I kept my eye out for new arrivals. Was still concerned with with the possibility of a passing motorist just driving onto the course. Been doing this since it was called "Gymkhana". Have seen locals DRIVE over cones to enter a lot. Nothing else matches granny motoring into the race line. And some day I may Post the story of "Barney" crashing into the middle of a run to arrest the felonious racer. But only if cajoled into posting one of The most memorable faux pas in the history of auto-X. Can only imagine the charge "impersonating a racer", "attempted racecar?" But back to the original thread, I was never happy with traffic control onto the lot. My sincere apologies for confusion at the entrance. James[/quote] And I approved the setup because Soloracer and Ms. Vlad pointed the problem out to me and the only way to control the traffic we could come up with was those cones. I can see how it may've been a bit visually disturbing to some of you but if you were looking through the course, ie, looking ahead, rather than looking in front of you, it shouldn't have been an issue. I have withheld comment til now on purpose. Out of respect for the work the course designers put in on it for starters. I was not very satisfied with the design at all. And not because I didn't run that well. I also did not care for the paddock and grid setup. MAny of you saw me out there trying to define the grid with cones while the first run group was cuing up. Sorry, but the grid had not been setup when I approved the course. My bad. But I was surprised when I discovered how little had been done to define where the cars were sposeta go, until Geoff Zimmer pointed the situation out to me. When I saw what had happened , to me, that was a safety concern and I immediately set about correcting it myself. Just as I did with the cones at the site entrance. It is a great venue, so long as you don't have too many cars show up, that is. Because of the parking situation primarily. Pdawg |
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Post by prancingdawg on Jun 14, 2006 7:33:33 GMT -5
Just a question from a semi-newb here: In the downhill slalom section, why were there no pointer cones indicating which way to go around the upright cones? Is this how slalom cones are typically laid out? Like I said I'm pretty new to this so I may be wrong, but I thought there was always a pointer cone indicating which way to go around an upright.. TIA There was a pointer cone at the top of the slalom, indicating a forced entry from the right hand side. Pdawg |
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Post by prancingdawg on Jun 14, 2006 7:38:34 GMT -5
Regarding number of run groups, I mentioned this in the other thread, but I wanted to repeat it here: 3 run groups should never happen again. Anytime you have your work assignment and competition heat next to each other (which inevitably happens for 2 of the groups in a 3 group format) there will be DELAYS, because people need to finish working or running. There is no transition time. 4 run groups allows one heat spaced between your work heat and competition heat that allows you to show up early for your work assignment. I hate three run groups as well. I'd rather take my chances wid the worker situation and make four groups. And hunt down the group four workers when they don't show up for their work assignments, take their mugshots, and post them here in a rogues gallery for us to ridicule and chastise properly. Then levy fines. Then let the air outta their tires. Or, er, somethin'  |
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Post by jbyrd on Jun 14, 2006 7:54:23 GMT -5
I can see how it may've been a bit visually disturbing to some of you but if you were looking through the course, ie, looking ahead, rather than looking in front of you, it shouldn't have been an issue. Pdawg Pdawg is right. If someone did have a problem with this, it more idicative of something you need to work on within the car - not a indictment of the course layout. Particularly, if you are new or fairly new to the sport, find a vet at the next event and walk the course with him. Get him/her to explain where you eyes should be focused. |
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Post by C4Shane on Jun 14, 2006 7:59:50 GMT -5
Sounds like a good story to tell at the social later this month..should attract some new attendees!
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Post by prancingdawg on Jun 14, 2006 8:04:21 GMT -5
Let me restate the point I just made. This happens when we instruct all the time.
When we tell you you must look ahead, we really mean look through the course and see where you want to be. If you are looking at only what's ahead ie in front of you, you will tend to develop target fixation and wind up placing your car in the wrong place, and ultimately, getting behind in your driving. We tend to drive where we are looking.
In order to set up properly for a series of turns, you must consider where the last exit is. If you don't, you wind up getting behind in your driving.
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Post by prancingdawg on Jun 14, 2006 8:05:21 GMT -5
But I digress |
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Post by crash477 on Jun 14, 2006 8:24:47 GMT -5
I had a blast. The course was great, and very fun! IT was too hot, but we cant control that. You can count on me to run timing as my worker assignment from now on.
Steven K.
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Other than the 3 run group deal where grp 2 & 3 got screwed into working then driving without a break while the group 1 drivers got to sit in the shade before they worked,(or left early) everything was great. Saw a mention of the group 3 drivers being late to grid, IT'S BECAUSE WE WAS STILL CHASIN' GROUP 2's CONES!!! Lets not do it that way again,OK??!!? Hey on the pointer cones, anybody notice how much easier it is with green pointers like the SCR uses??? Where can we git sum green uns???
) Even so, I think those side-laying cones should've been moved a bit further to the outside. There was plenty of room down toward what was a dead corner of the lot, anyway. Especially that 2nd cone. It needed to be about 4 feet further out, the first and third one maybe 3 feet, and the last one just one foot. The turn would've been just as sharp, without being such a needle's eye.
