My Neon has been triaged

[turtle8]

It will have life after an upcoming crankshaft transplant. I separated the bedplate and found badly worn rod and main bearings and a scored crankshaft. I'll be ordering a crank and bearings on Monday.

[cr89x]

Machine shop?

[turtle8]

I used McCraw Machine Shop here in Rock Hill to do the head work and bore the block. I don't fault them too much as I assembled the parts myself. I used plastigage and the clearances were within spec, so I used the standard bearings. This time around, I'll get a reman crank and matched bearings; probably from O'Reilly for $170.

Right now I am waiting for some Miller tools to arrive so I can have the right stuff to remove the crank pulley and crank sprocket.

[cr89x]

I meant to resurface, check bearing clearances, and get suggested bearing sizes. Machine shop may save you some if the damage wasn't too bad. Funny because I was just talking to a buddy this afternoon as to what I would do with a similar situation.

[turtle8]

Actually, my machinist said the crank was in OK shape the first time and suggested I use oversize bearings on the mains and standard on the rods. So, I took the crank home and assembled with the plastigage. When I took it apart to measure the plastigage, everything was within spec using all standard size bearings. In the end, that is what I used.

After the rebuilt engine was installed, the oil pressure wouldn't hold and a knock developed. This past weekend I took the bedplate off and saw all the nasty bearings and crankshaft.

I was pondering having the crank re-ground, but I am pretty sure it was done in the past. That engine was remanufactured once before. This time I want to make sure everything is perfect.

[cr89x]

You didn't happen to leave the plastigage on the journal did you? Like you measured it, didn't wipe it off and put engine back together. Good thing you checked the clearances, were they all the same or very close?
Also, did you use an assembly lube at all? Or coat the parts with oil as you assembled the engine?

I ask these questions because the crank should be sitting in oil and not technically need to rely on oil pressure. It's kind of odd that you spun the bottom end that quick. Unless you didn't torque everything down the correct way and to specs, which I'm positive you did from everything I've read about your build thus far.

All in all, I'm going to help you here get this thing running. Let's cheer Michael on guys.

[loves2turn]

Didnt you say the bearing just went bad? Its really hard to assemble these blocks incorrectly. I dont think its something you did..rather than a part crapping out. Mopar sells their own STD bearings..or you could look into Clevite. Both are good options with a un-touched crank.

[turtle8]

I did remember to remove the Plastigage.

I used assembly lube.

The clearances were consistent from rod to rod and main to main. I think they were just too close to the loose end of the scale.

BTW: the new crankshaft is now installed. It came as a complete kit - remanufactured crank and matching bearings. The whole thing fits much nicer than before.

I'll see how the rest of the install goes this week. I am waiting for my crank underdrive pulley to get here and am considering ordering a header.

Thanks for you support guys.

[cr89x]

I agree with Chad, but still trying to help. Did you plastigage this one? Just because they checked it doesn't mean you don't have a problem with a cap. If the problem happens again, then you need to highly consider a line bore. Also, consulting with some technician buddies of mine, I came to realize that your lack of oil pressure was more than likely caused by too high of bearing clearances.

Seen as you mentioned an underdrive pulley. Are you opting for an aftermarket and/or lightweight pulley? If so, do you have a lightened or lightweight flywheel also? If you have both, you need to have the bottom end balanced. Running one or the other you can get away with. If you run both, for some odd reason, it throws the balance out of wack. I know it sounds backwards, but I found this out in the past.

I think you need to hire Chad to make you a header.

[loves2turn]

There are a few guys running lightweight flywheel (fidanza and drilled out and bolted modular PT Clutches) that weight in at around 8.5 lbs..as well as run a MPx, TTi, etc..UDP with no ill effects. The bottem end is already balenced (hence no dampener or pully balencer.

Modern just started on a new design on their UDP (weights a hair more than before but alot beffier center section and stronger). And your DOHC isnt going to wake up until a header and PCM (Mopar, AFX, Megasquirt). Shorty header's are ok..but longtubes are the best bet. Modern custom makes a Kirk header (mehh thumbs down)..BUT it can be made to your specs. So a 1 7/8'' longtube with at least 28'' primary's would be perfect without sacrificing too much low end. I wouldnt spend money on a header period unless its a longtube..just save for it.

Also..what kind of break in oil did you use? Our motors dont like anymore than 10w-30 (bearing clearance reasons). I use 5w-30 even when racing.

[loves2turn]

Orr an Off the shelf AFX longtube w/ S&S Merge would be a good option. Since Blackdog and FastFABS are nearly impossible to get ahold of.

[turtle8]

No Plastigage this time.

I doubt I need a line bore. All the bearings showed signs of not enough oil pressure. I measured the clearances on the oil pump last time and it is within spec. The Chinese oil pump that came with the rebuild kit has some bad castings inside.

On my past race car and my street car, I've run lightweight underdrive pulleys and stock flywheels with no problems. I am using a stage-1 aftermarket modular clutch/flywheel setup.

I had conventional, 10W-30 oil in after the first rebuild. It didn't get much of a break-in before the knock happened. There is still cross-hatching in the cylinders.

[turtle8]

Chad, what do you think of this OBX long tube header?

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-Exhaust-Manifold-Headers-95-05-Dodge-Neon-2-0L-DOHC_W0QQitemZ370320094163QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item5638cc33d3\

[loves2turn]

That longtube as actually decently okay..its one of the more shorter longtubes (TTi copy)..but will offer nice gains over the stock manifold..or even a short header. But i wouldnt recomment using their gasket. Go to the junkyard and get a exhaust gasket off of a 2.4 stratus/cirrus and use that. Its a 3 layer metal gasket and will last forever..literally. Try 5w-30 for break in..our engines call for it anyway.

[cr89x]

That manifold looks pimp!

Hope you get it running well this time. Be nice to see you out at ZMAX.

[loves2turn]

Here is my longtube



FastFabsV2. it is..quite possibly THE best longtube for the money. Big 1 3/4'' to 1 7/8'' stepped primary's. Very long primary's (longest next to the Blackdog longtube) and the formed collector isnt bad either. If you get a chance..snag one.

Here it is next to the stock manifold.



It now wear's a Burn's stainless merge collector. If i were to guess..i probably gained 10-12hp and 6-8 tq by going with this header.

Blackdog's are best. They come with the longest primary tubes (some rare ones being 2'')and come off the shelf with an S&S Merge, then the FastFabs. Then i suppose would be the AFX followed by TTi and OBX. The Kirk header's are complete trash, short primary tubes and rust quickly..stay away from Kirk.

[turtle8]

Chad, you should install that header and come play in FSP (or just give it to me ).

Who sells the AFX header?

BTW: My brother-in-law and I just put the engine in the car. Everything now needs to be connected, but first I gotta do some graphic designing; must pay the bills, ya know.

[cr89x]

Chad, are you sure you made gains from the stock manifold to that one??? lol jp
That is just redonkulous the difference. Stock is just a restrictor plate, more or less.

[turtle8]

Well, I had a setback today. We didn't install the clutch fork correctly when we joined the transmission to the engine. As a result the clutch was not being actuated. So, off came the transmission, connect the clutch fork, and attached the transmission again. Now all is fine and it should be running tomorrow.

[cr89x]

That is such a dumb problem to have. Been there before though .... well .... similiar situations.

[loves2turn]

If your on the cheap, the newer non turbo PT Cruiser manifold is more tubular (similar to a 2nd gen R/T Magnum manifold) and is still cast..although..eventually..it will crack.

What clutch did you end up getting?

[turtle8]

YAY! MY ENGINE WORKS! It runs great. No more vibration or low oil pressure. There is only one minor problem, it seems that my power steering pump is going bad. It is making that bad, loud sound.

I bought the F1 Racing Stage 1 clutch sold by Gripforce Clutches on eBay Motors. I bought my Sachs Racing Power Clutch from them that I put in my '01 ACR. The F1 clutch is their own design. I think it is a copy of the Sachs and it is a little cheaper.

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/F1-RACING-STAGE-1-CLUTCH-KIT-ECLIPSE-TALON-NEON-AVENGER_W0QQitemZ350258435707QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item518d07967b#ht_2528wt_933

[loves2turn]

AWESOME!..was the PS Noise happening when i was cold this morning? Cold be the fluid..switch over to the post98 fluid and dont worry about it again. I forgot to ask..did your ACR come with the factory Koni's? My R/T came with a full set of factory black Koni's. The Previous owner ran it in stock class waayyyy back in the day..they need rebuilt though.

[turtle8]

I didn't start up my engine until mid-afternoon today. I am using a name brand universal power steering fluid. I didn't have any problems until today. I may have the belt too tight. What's a good way to exchange the fluid in the system?

I do have black Konis and they seem to be in good shape. The previous owner did a warranty claim and had a pair swapped out.

[loves2turn]

Nice..sound like your good to go on struts then.

I just usually unhook both lines (feed and return) comming out of the res. so that the pump can fully pump out all fluid including steering rack. I run it until the pump whines for a few seconds then put the hose's back on and refill.

[cr89x]

I second the replacing of the fluid. The belt is highly possible also.
Sounds like you just keep having little silly issues now.

[turtle8]

Well, I bought a used PS pump from Carolina Salvage. Compare to my pump, the pulley is much less wobbly. I installed the pump this afternoon after flushing the system. I poured in Redline power steering fluid I had in my workshop/shed. That's I used in my old Neon race car.

Now, I am trying to get the air out of the system. I am doing what AllDataDIY.com is telling me to do - turn the wheel slowly from stop-to-stop with the wheels off, then on the ground. The fluid is so damn foamy! The pump is near quiet when the wheels are off the ground but as soon as I lower the car and turn the wheels, the pump makes loud sounds and foams up the fluid fast.

What did I do wrong this time?

[cr89x]

Your doing it right. Just keep turning that wheel to the bump stops. Try leaving the resevior cap off also. It may not actually be bleeding out. Check fluid level again also. Kind of like bleeding brakes, in a way.

[loves2turn]

But it should'nt be foaming up like that. I had that problem last year with the fluid getting to hot. Sounds like too much pressure is getting built up somewhere.

[turtle8]

I have figured out why the fluid is foamy. The pump has a leak and it is sucking in air.