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Post by drum3 on Apr 19, 2012 20:00:33 GMT -5
OK guys and Gals we really need your help to make this event work . Jr and Evolution have put over $10,000 of their money into this event because this area said they wanted a National event . Now we need you to attend and participate or we may never be able to take a chance on holding another National event in this area .
We set the event up so it ran almost identical to a local event , we have instructors for novices , a constantly running video of Jr navigating the course to help the novices , we have more than $5000 of random drawing prizes , cash for Shootout winners , Trophies and t-shirts for class winners and runner-ups ,,,,, what else could anyone want in an event ?!
Please register and support your region ! Registration will be open until 8am Saturday morning .
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Post by SE3P on Apr 19, 2012 21:58:53 GMT -5
If you can get Rich to put it on the home page of CCRSCCA.com I feel it would be helpful. Alot of users dont frequent the forums..
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 19, 2012 22:29:24 GMT -5
I'd love to run this event, but Im currently out of town and won't be back until Saturday afternoon. I hope a rash of entries come thru and make this event huge. I definitely want try an event like this next time around. Im planning to stop by and watch some of the afternoon action. Good luck to all Involved!
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Post by drum3 on Apr 20, 2012 6:13:36 GMT -5
Its not on the Home Page ? After 6 months of Promoting that CCR is helping put the event on ? Wow .
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Post by z3elda on Apr 20, 2012 6:19:10 GMT -5
Its not on the Home Page ? After 6 months of Promoting that CCR is helping put the event on ? Wow . The webmaster is a little busy. |
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Post by 05astock on Apr 20, 2012 10:25:22 GMT -5
Im on my way to charlotte now, Ill be there but I wont be able to pre-register.
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Post by fastblackef6868 on Apr 20, 2012 22:03:02 GMT -5
O how I wish I could make this one. After many hours of fighting with my wife I gave up and gave in to what she wants. ( It is are one year anniversary after all LOL). So I really hope they can do this again here! Good luck guys and have fun for me!
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Post by cr89x on Apr 21, 2012 4:08:45 GMT -5
Dammit Jon. Congrats though.
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Post by drum3 on Apr 21, 2012 20:03:25 GMT -5
Considering we lost just north of $5,000 on this event with attendance numbers below the last 2 local events I dont see the Shootout coming back to Charlotte . It just doesnt make financial sense . I hope the Atlanta event is supported a little better .
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Post by MrsVlad on Apr 22, 2012 6:08:42 GMT -5
Considering we lost just north of $5,000 on this event Holy Poop. I'm sorry to read this. Hopefully your Atlanta event is not scheduled on the same day as any other local events. And the weather forecast has no mention of rain. Who won? I'd like to see the results . |
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Post by ball80 on Apr 22, 2012 18:36:15 GMT -5
Drum
I am sorry I couldn't make it. Parts for my car won't be here till tuseday. On the other side I think a pole or questioner should be posted to see why turn out was low. Ie same weekend as the car event. Price. And other reasons. Because to make events better for the future let's see why they were low turn out this year. I do think that one might be price. I read that the purpose of this event was to show novices that they could compete with national drivers. But novices haven't paid for national events and don't know the cost. The most they have paid is 45 dollars for an event. Now me I'll work 3 days over time just to go for seat time. But not everyone is serious like that as a novice. If one is planned for next year I would enjoy being on a committee to share input. But try the pole and see what people think....
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Post by drum3 on Apr 22, 2012 19:57:10 GMT -5
Novices have paid $45 a day for an event with only trophies . This was 2 days for $85 and a chance at $10,000 worth of prizes , a National Tour is 2 days and 6 runs for $110 a trophy and maybe tire contingency
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Post by ball80 on Apr 22, 2012 20:18:08 GMT -5
It was 2 days if you qualified. I look through the 2nd day qualifiers, did a novice make it to sunday? All im saying is, thats just a lot to the average person whos starting out. I mean did i honestly think i had a chance in winning 1st place? No i did it only for the fun of it, same as typical person would be thinking. Again I think it was a great event and wish i could have ran it too, just wonder where people got hung up from registering
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Post by z3elda on Apr 22, 2012 20:56:24 GMT -5
Mike Tablas (sp)? made it to the shootout. He's not running Novice this year, but I think he only started AX late last year.
I didn't make it into the shootout, but I showed up in the rain to help where I could and root for my friends.. It was exciting to watch as the pressure mounted, and the rain came down harder.
There's alot to be learned by watching and driving against national level talent. I paid the money and did it close to home. I could have paid the money and drove to Atlanta or DC on top of that.
I am afraid we probably lost our chance to get a National Tour event in Charlotte. 129 (or so) doesn't show the national office the need to give us a date.
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Post by yellow CR on Apr 22, 2012 21:09:06 GMT -5
To all who didn't show, you missed out on an amazing event. It was super fun and so many people walked away with something with all the give aways.
With a 12 person draw to get into the shootout, everyone had a chance to get i. to Sundays. And in competition with the rain we had Brian Guinn get 3rd and almost had 1st, if not for a tap on the showcase turns cone, and we also had the #1 seed beaten by the #64 seed. So I'd say it was very open to all levels of competitors.
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 22, 2012 22:16:40 GMT -5
As I posted earlier, I wasn't able to sign up for the event, but I did come by Saturday afternoon to watch and was very impressed by what I saw. Things appeared to run very smooth, the announcers did a great job throughout the event, and the course looked great. It was killing me to only be able to watch, but there was no way I could get there any earlier.
I'm sorry there weren't more entries and I really wish I could've added to the numbers, but it's hard to run them all. I'm a Novice and the cost and the threat of stiffer competition wasn't an issue for me. $85 dollars for a minimum of 6 runs and a chance to win some prizes was good enough for me. Making the Shootout would've just been icing on the cake. Unfortunately, I just couldn't rearrange my plans. It's a shame that Charlotte is going to miss out on this in the future, because the event looked awesome.
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Post by turtle8 on Apr 22, 2012 22:41:35 GMT -5
The number one reason I didn't register was price. True, the entry fee for the shootout was less than that of an SCCA National Tour event, but $85 is a lot of money to me (especially when I have a car that needs parts to run). When I spend money, I must think: what else with $85 buy? Also, I knew there was no way I'd advance thru the tourny based on my driving skill and underprepared EP car alone. That left the lottery where the odds are stacked against.
So price and my consistently mid-pack finishing position made the decision for me.
Question: Do you think, an officially SCCA sanctioned National Tour event would have more draw?
One more point, and I'll stop writing. Who remembers the past attempt at a professional autocross series with cash payouts? I believe it was in the early part of this decade. To me, it seems like quite a risk to put on such an event.
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Post by drum3 on Apr 23, 2012 5:17:23 GMT -5
It was 2 days if you qualified. I look through the 2nd day qualifiers, did a novice make it to sunday? All im saying is, thats just a lot to the average person whos starting out. I mean did i honestly think i had a chance in winning 1st place? No i did it only for the fun of it, same as typical person would be thinking. Again I think it was a great event and wish i could have ran it too, just wonder where people got hung up from registering Its 2 days everywhere EXCEPT Zmax because of the 12 noon Sunday Curfew . 4 Autocrossers with less than 1 year experience made the top 64 . 3 by random draw one made it in by the LCQ . Of those , 1 made it to the final 16 and into the money , so yes anyone can do well . Brian Guinn , a random draw , very easily could have won it all . Not to mention the random draw people that carried away $150 worth of Joe Gibbs oil , $500 Ariel Atom Track Experience , $500 in Goodyear tires , etc , etc . |
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Post by drum3 on Apr 23, 2012 5:18:15 GMT -5
And it is still 6 runs just like you get at a tour , more if you get in the 64
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Post by dwendel on Apr 23, 2012 6:40:32 GMT -5
How much was NCAC last year? That was only 6 runs in 2 days at zmax. I think it was $80.
All the winner got there was a plack that says you won NCAC, no money.
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Post by ball80 on Apr 23, 2012 6:45:38 GMT -5
It is all relative to perspective. Example. People in new York are used to paying 5 dollars a gallon for gas. They come to south Carolina and gobble it up at 3.53 a gallon. Where as people in south Carolina go to north Carolina and its 3.90 for
The same gas 20 miles away. And we will practically run out of gas to get across The boarder. So for you, who do national events. Yes it's a great deal. But for us who pay 25 dollars at most events and get 6 to 10 runs. It's pricey.
I am glad that I saw so many familiar names in the shoot out , micheal, Kuhn, casino, barker. A lot of people really
Did a great showing and congrats to them!!!
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Post by srduck on Apr 23, 2012 8:20:28 GMT -5
How much was NCAC last year? That was only 6 runs in 2 days at zmax. I think it was $80. All the winner got there was a plack that says you won NCAC, no money. No money to the winners, no random drawings for prizes, just a free t-shirt for entry and plaque to the winner. Oh, and I think it was 7 runs last year... 4 on the clockwise and 3 on the counterclockwise course. WHOOPEE! HUGE difference right there, right? I'm disappointed at the turnout, especially from our home region, and I know I'm not the only one that expressed that sentiment. We had 180 people show up to a random event on a cold day in February, so why couldn't we get at least 150 to what ended up being a beautiful Saturday (we won't mention Sunday's weather) at an event at the same site? You guys that skipped out have no idea what you missed. Saturday was a ton of fun to run. I learned a lot just watching some of these National level guys like Junior, Strano, Courmier, and DiSimo run. Knowing that I was up against Feinberg in class pushed me to drive harder than I've ever driven before. And the camaraderie during Sunday's runs with everyone cheering on everyone else was AWESOME! You should have heard the cheers when Gunny came through the finish... then again when we realized he made it into the finals. If you missed it, that's a shame. If we end up not getting another event because the attendance was so low, that's an even bigger shame. The format was brilliant, even though there are some kinks to be worked out, and I would LOVE to see it succeed and reach the popularity of the National Tour or ProSolo events. |
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Post by turtle8 on Apr 23, 2012 8:37:36 GMT -5
I am not doubting the fun factor. Autocross is always fun! What I am doubting is the format. Anthony was bemoaning the fact that the promoters lost $5,000. I don't believe an autocross series with cash prizes can sustain itself on entry fees alone.
Heck isn't it true that, because of the lot rental fee, CCR barely breaks even with our regular turnout at ZMax? Every other motorsports with cash prizes uses other sources of revenue to sustain itself, be it the local dirt track and drag strip, all the way up the ladder.
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Post by lancer360 on Apr 23, 2012 9:25:22 GMT -5
There are sponsors for the event, problem is if entry count is low the sponsors either won't commit or pull out. To make it successful you need both sponsors and entries. I too was disappointed at the number of locals who didn't come out. Althought I didn't drive as well as I was hoping to, it was still fun. Watching the numerous national champs drive was very impressive and constructive.
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Post by 04wrxtl on Apr 23, 2012 9:40:58 GMT -5
I'm just gonna make a quick point as far as the losing 5000 on this event. Say our driver cap was 180 right? We already had close to 130 registered last I checked, so even with 50 more drivers they still would have lost a few hundred. Point here being Sponsors don't sponsor things to make money EVER, its to promote and gain business later on. And as far as an organization making money in racing that unlikely as well, it's like that old saying "in order to make a small fortune in racing, you must first start with a large one"...you can't depend on entry fees alone to make money and if you do, well they will be so high people will stop coming. But the big thing is we are not here to make money its not about that it's about enjoying what we love to do and that's abusing our cars  But other than that the event was super fun, I enjoyed it. |
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Post by srduck on Apr 23, 2012 9:51:26 GMT -5
I'm just gonna make a quick point as far as the losing 5000 on this event. Say our driver cap was 180 right? We already had close to 130 registered last I checked, so even with 50 more drivers they still would have lost a few hundred. Point here being Sponsors don't sponsor things to make money EVER, its to promote and gain business later on. And as far as an organization making money in racing that unlikely as well, it's like that old saying "in order to make a small fortune in racing, you must first start with a large one"...you can't depend on entry fees alone to make money and if you do, well they will be so high people will stop coming. But the big thing is we are not here to make money its not about that it's about enjoying what we love to do and that's abusing our cars But other than that the event was super fun, I enjoyed it. Sponsors don't sponsor it to make money, they do it to gain business.... yes... but if they can't get their name and product in front of people, they're not likely to sponsor things much longer. THAT'S why we have to have the entry fees to go along with the sponsorships. And the clubs that put on these events have to at least break even to make it worthwhile to put them on. I know we (CCR) figure up the break even point for every event and usually surpass it. But that number is why our ZMax events have to get board approval pending attendance of previous events to make sure it's worthwhile. If the club (or in this case Evo School) is losing money running an event, it's not likely they're going to keep running events so we have a place to abuse our cars and have fun. The driver cap was actually 250, and I heard the break-even point was close to 200. |
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Post by turtle8 on Apr 23, 2012 9:55:01 GMT -5
129 entries x $85 = $10,965
That pays for the prizes but not the lot. The promoters would need like 200 drivers to be comfortable. How many drivers who are in this region aspire to do the National Tour events? And, how many are comfortable paying National entry fee rates?
On that cold Saturday in February there were approximately 180 entries. How many would you say are casual, non-hardcore autocrossers - half? That doesn't leave enough potential Shootout entrants.
Sponsors do help, but it must be worth their while. Is 200 sets of eyeballs viewing sponsor ads enough to cover their investment? Scale back the investment required and it might work out.
National Tour events work because they are backed by the SCCA National Office, are promoted nationally in SportsCar and GRM, and don't have the burden of covering that large amount of cash prizes on top of organizational costs. A Tour event may still work in our area despite what we saw this past weekend.
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Post by drum3 on Apr 23, 2012 11:29:56 GMT -5
Mike , This was a National SCCA event , backed by the office and advertised in GRM and SportsCar but just as every other National Tour , the budget for that event is set by potential entries . When you lose money , you tend to shy away from those sites . We were hoping to draw half your local competitors (approx 75) and the rest we were expecting National Competitors . We drew far less on each account . This followed by the monstrous new fees for a 2 day Zmax event hurt and the combination of the 2 is why it will probably move to DC or Nashville .
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Post by jbyrd on Apr 23, 2012 11:41:22 GMT -5
Bottom line: If you missed this, you probably missed seeing the future of the sport.
If this was a test of our capabilities of holding a National Tour Event: We passed on our ability to hold such an event, but we failed on our membership commitment.
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Post by jbrown on Apr 23, 2012 11:45:10 GMT -5
You guys deserve this again next year... Your dedication and effort was second to none. Coming from a region that has only one site and its letter stamp sized,we can really get behind a good site such as Zmax. Maybe a lot of the locals are not grateful for what they have,or could get with a little more support from themselves...the local club. In my two prior visits this year I was amazed that a local drew over 150+..and this didnt. I just cant wrap my head around the thought pattern that does that. Even if I had not won,it would have been the best 85 dollars Iv spent in quiet some time.. prolly going back to the days of BabyDolls...lol ok,nevermind that. Anyway, I hope you get to do this all over again next time..and Ill see you all in Atlanta!!!
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