rapidbutterfly
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Post by rapidbutterfly on Feb 22, 2013 8:33:28 GMT -5
Hello all. Trying to plan my event calendar and am wondering how good the black lake site is (is a 320 mile one way for me). How does it compare to zmax or for those who know, Virginia motorsports park in Petersburg? Your thoughts appreciated.
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Post by illbebetter on Feb 22, 2013 8:43:12 GMT -5
The site has just been resurfaced. We did a street survival school the back in the fall. We actually had a hard time getting cars to slip on a soaped skid pad.
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Post by srduck on Feb 22, 2013 8:48:03 GMT -5
It's hard to say at this point. Black lake is a HUGE flat site.... but no one has any experience at it since it was repaved.
Previous years
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Post by integra55 on Feb 22, 2013 9:57:01 GMT -5
in the past it was a GREAT, relatively low grip, HUGE lot .... now it should be all that while changing "low grip" to high grip ( at least for asphalt )
be sure to read the sups ... there are some "strange" rules imposed by Michelin, and they are VERY adamant about them being adhered to
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Post by srduck on Feb 22, 2013 10:35:53 GMT -5
in the past it was a GREAT, relatively low grip, HUGE lot .... now it should be all that while changing "low grip" to high grip ( at least for asphalt ) Last year was the first time I had run it, and I know everyone keeps saying the grip was low, but.... it was just... odd. I felt like I couldn't put power down without spinning the tires, but lateral grip was great. Kinda like Tablas said about not being able to get cars to slide on a wet skidpad there... the cornering grip was perfectly fine. I actually felt kinda the same way in the rain at ZMax this weekend. Anyway, I'm sure Michelin knows what they're doing and the result is going to be awesome! Can't wait to see how the repave feels!! Trying to remember them since I can't find a copy of last year's supps, but I think it was: No one under 18 on site ABSOLUTELY no jacks or jackstands on the pavement. Bring boards to put under anything like that. Obey the one way on the approach road. |
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rapidbutterfly
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Posts: 94
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Post by rapidbutterfly on Feb 22, 2013 10:48:15 GMT -5
hmmm....decisions. thanks for the input so far.
so, much bigger than zmax? EDIT - shoulda watched the vids first. duh. looks really awesome I must say. thanks for putting up the vids.
Even the pit area is subject to that rule regarding jacks and jackstands?
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Post by illbebetter on Feb 22, 2013 11:22:07 GMT -5
Yes. The whole site is a tire testing facility. No jacks or jack stand on pavement without wood even on roadway(pit area).
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Post by integra55 on Feb 22, 2013 15:00:37 GMT -5
hmmm....decisions. thanks for the input so far. so, much bigger than zmax? EDIT - shoulda watched the vids first. duh. looks really awesome I must say. thanks for putting up the vids. Even the pit area is subject to that rule regarding jacks and jackstands? yes ... absolutely ... even to the point of ... if you bring your car in on a trailer, you either have to put wood under the ramps or off-load in the grass... they are VERY serious about this ... there are cameras through out the area we lost the site once before because someone ( very deliberately ignored this rule ) and the one way travel is another of their "you will not violate" rules ... the site is worth the rules |
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Post by tadpole on Feb 22, 2013 18:28:20 GMT -5
Is there a list of these rules somewhere? If I am able to get off work to go, I don't want to be the idiot that didn't follow them cause I don't know what any of them are?
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Post by yellow CR on Feb 22, 2013 18:36:17 GMT -5
zMax is bigger than Michelin. But Michelin has no light poles. So they are pretty similar as far as the course length. Their is a reason we draw 200 or so drivers each year at Michelin.
As for the rules, you must put wood under any metal you are using, as Steve stated. But add canopy tents to the list. The metal legs must have wood underneath them if they come in contact with the asphalt. Or you can stake them into the small grass areas surrounding grid / paddock.
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Post by integra55 on Feb 22, 2013 19:28:29 GMT -5
Is there a list of these rules somewhere? If I am able to get off work to go, I don't want to be the idiot that didn't follow them cause I don't know what any of them are? I'm sure there will be supplementary rules published when the reg. for this event is posted ... it'll have all the non-normal rules + links to the extra set of wavier sheets that'll have to be signed |
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Post by alschoon on Feb 22, 2013 19:44:21 GMT -5
Hello all. Trying to plan my event calendar and am wondering how good the black lake site is (is a 320 mile one way for me). How does it compare to zmax or for those who know, Virginia motorsports park in Petersburg? Your thoughts appreciated. I'll tell you how good it is. I really enjoy NHRA drag racing at zMax. It's a great spectator sport for short attention span...squirrel!..,people. I skipped the 4-Wide Nationals a couple years ago for Black Lake. And would do it again in a heartbeat. There's not another site within 200 miles that would cause me to miss NHRA Nationals at zMax. Keep in mind I'm an autocrosser first, 30+ years and counting. |
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Post by richardspyder12 on Feb 22, 2013 22:12:56 GMT -5
One correction, 18 and under are allowed on site, but they can't drive. I ran into that last year with my grandson who was 17 at the time, and a season champ in H stock, but he was not allowed to drive in the event.
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Post by 05astock on Feb 22, 2013 23:51:43 GMT -5
Just do what someone did last year and said his kid was of age but "they forgot" their ID card, then changed the course.
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Post by srduck on Feb 23, 2013 5:48:18 GMT -5
One correction, 18 and under are allowed on site, but they can't drive. I ran into that last year with my grandson who was 17 at the time, and a season champ in H stock, but he was not allowed to drive in the event. Ahh... ok. When is Cameron's birthday? I know this event is 3 months earlier than last year's was, so will he be 18 by then? |
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Post by drum3 on Feb 23, 2013 7:24:07 GMT -5
Hello all. Trying to plan my event calendar and am wondering how good the black lake site is (is a 320 mile one way for me). How does it compare to zmax or for those who know, Virginia motorsports park in Petersburg? Your thoughts appreciated. I'll tell you how good it is. I really enjoy NHRA drag racing at zMax. It's a great spectator sport for short attention span...squirrel!..,people. I skipped the 4-Wide Nationals a couple years ago for Black Lake. And would do it again in a heartbeat. There's not another site within 200 miles that would cause me to miss NHRA Nationals at zMax. Keep in mind I'm an autocrosser first, 30+ years and counting. What Alan said . Best site on the East Coast , Zmax is easier to get to but Michelin is better . I've autocrossed there just after the last repave and it was amazing . We lost the sites because some guys let a tool box and jack fall out of a truck on their way to rescue a car broken on course . It gashed the pavement pretty good and we knew before we left for the weekend that we wouldnt be coming back. |
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Post by markt on Feb 23, 2013 7:45:58 GMT -5
Also, OBEY THE SPEED LIMIT ON THE PERIMETER ROAD!!! Take your time, enjoy the placid view, you'll get your chance to go fast...just not on the perimeter road.
Also, this isn't in the supps but, you might want to pick up a 5# bag of cheap kitty litter and throw it in with your stuff. They are very concerned about chemical spills and we never seem to have too much oil dry.
Remember, unlike most places we run this is not a parking lot. This is a critical component of their business. Grass growing up through the pavement at Knights isn't a big deal, they make their money off baseball. Black Lake is like the playing field at Knights, I don't think the folks in Ft. Mill would let us do a Rallycross on the diamond...that would be fun, though.
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Post by 1slowcrx on Feb 23, 2013 17:26:37 GMT -5
It's a good enough site that Ill go back again this year. Even of SCR is running timing ;-)
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Post by mrbill on Feb 23, 2013 18:53:42 GMT -5
I'm one of the guys that works at the Michelin Proving Grounds where the "black lake" exists, and there are usually a couple of employees at the SCCA AutoX's hosted on-site to act as an event host (plus I race my DSP Mazdaspeed3 at CCR & SCR events).
The biggest differences for running at this site have already been covered in this thread (age limit for driving, no metal directly on the asphalt, etc.)...some of these are driven through Michelin corporate policy while others are LPG specific. The biggest thing is we're just trying to take care of our test surface, especially now that we made a pretty big investment late last year on re-paving the VDA pad with some high quality (not standard DOT) asphalt. The new surface has TONS of grip and is must smoother and easier on tires. It will probably need to last us around 15-20 years as a test surface along with being a track that is rented by outside companies for their own testing.
Hope you come down to check it out. Don't feel scared or nervous about the extra rules...I've been at most of the events since I started working there 5 years ago and outside the occasional oil/fluid leaks (to be expected) we've never had any big problems.
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Post by richardspyder12 on Feb 23, 2013 21:59:13 GMT -5
Cameron was 18 just a month after last years Black Lake event, so he's good for this year,Thanks.
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Post by chilihead on Feb 26, 2013 9:11:36 GMT -5
What's the address to Black Lake? I tried searching the forum, but no results. Thanks
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Post by srduck on Feb 26, 2013 9:22:40 GMT -5
Here's the easiest solution.... Google Maps with destination pin already placed. Just click, type your starting point, and go. As far as I know, it really doesn't have an address per se... so... just do this  maps.google.com/maps?daddr=34.394268,-82.018526&hl=en&sll=34.392887,-82.019591&sspn=0.028189,0.055747&t=h&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=15&z=15 |
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Post by tirewarmer on Feb 26, 2013 14:16:26 GMT -5
It's a good enough site that Ill go back again this year. Even of SCR is running timing ;-) I'll make sure to give the SOLO Chair a call and have him assign you to timing ;-) |
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Post by z3elda on Feb 26, 2013 17:44:44 GMT -5
2440 S Carolina 39, Mountville, SC 29673
As I recall, my GPS said I was there a little early. Look for the signs, there will also be SCCA autocross signs at the entrance (normally)
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Post by yellow CR on Feb 26, 2013 18:50:02 GMT -5
Just do what someone did last year and said his kid was of age but "they forgot" their ID card, then changed the course. Adam, you couldn't be any more wrong. He changed the course first, then lied about his sons age. Get your timeframe right, geez. ;D It's a good enough site that Ill go back again this year. Even of SCR is running timing ;-) I'll make sure to give the SOLO Chair a call and have him assign you to timing ;-) In Ingrams defense, he and O'Malley did get a combined 12 runs last year. But please don't ask him to do timing, we will all get 12 runs and be there until midnight. |
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Post by z3elda on Feb 26, 2013 22:00:41 GMT -5
I accept those conditions. Let's run with our lights on!
The safety steward is only kidding..
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Post by 1slowcrx on Feb 27, 2013 0:55:55 GMT -5
Hey, running at night forces you to look ahead!
And yes, we ended up making 13 runs to get 6 timed after hoping we had enough tire to get one competitive run each... Trust me, you don't want me in the timing trailer. ;-)
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Post by 1slowcrx on Feb 27, 2013 0:57:03 GMT -5
Hey, running at night forces you to look ahead! And yes, we ended up making 13 runs to get 6 timed after hoping we had enough tire to get one competitive run each... Trust me, you don't want me in the timing trailer. ;-) In all fairness. SCR is making huge steps and runs a wonderful event. If you can make it down there. You're making a mistake if you don't go. |
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rapidbutterfly
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Posts: 94
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Post by rapidbutterfly on Feb 27, 2013 8:40:43 GMT -5
We're planning to be there - just need to manage the logistics.
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Post by Captain Avg. on Feb 27, 2013 15:20:15 GMT -5
I've only run there once and since I never drive near the traction limit I can't comment on that. I will tell you it makes really pretty smoke when you lock up the brakes.
Not having poles and other obstacles to dodge makes it easier to grow a set, and if Licursi designs or helps design the course(*crosses fingers*) that can be a big plus.
One rule I remember that I didn't see mentioned is that since the access road is one-way (and they enforce that) the only way out is through the course, which means no leaving at will... you're trapped there until the course is not hot (between run groups?). So bring lunch and a chair to watch all the action.
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