AX8 Watch the Jinx @zMax

[dasautochris]

T-Ball and Alan told me about your car. That sucks. How is it running now?

[steven6282]

Jul 29, 2013 9:30:57 GMT -5 dasautochris said:

T-Ball and Alan told me about your car. That sucks. How is it running now?

Dried out the wells and put new plugs and wires on it yesterday and it seems like it's running a little better than before. One of the wires was definitely degraded and not making good contact anyway (it shocked AJ when he was poking his head under the hood Saturday) =P

Hopefully it won't give me any problems at the 24 hour event. If we can figure out logistics though, I think we are going to have a few cars there to torture Bring out my Camaro again for some good old sliding fun hehe.

[dewittpayne]

Which classes besides stock were in run group 3? It would be interesting to break them out of the results and compare PAX times to get an idea about the wet/dry time difference.

Riding in my car with Dave O'Malley driving in the wet was worth the entry fee and the three hour drive each way. Definitely an E-ticket ride. For those too young, you used to buy ticket books for the rides at Disneyland. There were A through E tickets in the book. The best rides, like the Matterhorn, required an E ticket.Watch Dave's hands on the steering wheel. The video makes the ride look a lot smoother than it felt in the car.


I missed that offset gate on my first run too. Fortunately, I had a co-driver who pointed it out to me and I didn't miss it again.

[srduck]

Riding with O'Maley is definitely a treat... especially in a RWD car... and especially when grip is absent I got to ride in his 335i at LJVM earlier this year and I don't think the car was ever pointed in the direction of travel.

[W. Dean Furr]

[/quote]I'm not sure if you noticed, but there was a bit of moisture during the event. Everything was set up during run group 1 and we had Dave O'Maley and Heyward Wagner announcing from the little tent near finish. Then when the rains came during run group 2, we scrambled to take down the computer, PA, and TV and get them into a dry place. We didn't put them back up for fear that said moisture might return, and moisture and electronics don't really play well together.[/quote]

Yup. I was working the course during the second run group, and saw the moisture first-hand. Had to pour water out of my boots and wring out my hat. I also understand very well why the finish was abandoned during group 2. And if Saturday had been the first and only time scoring was shut down (or failed to be set up) during an event, I would not have mentioned it. But it’s NOT the first time. Send me a PM, and I’ll be glad to explain further. In the meantime, thanks again to Grid (or whatever position the person with the radio was filling) for letting me know I was off course and taking the time to help me learn where I should have been.

[srduck]

Oh I'm aware. I do the best I can, man. If you want to step up and be Chief of Timing & Scoring so you can make sure everything runs, just let me know. In the meantime, sometimes things aren't going to go right, and we're just doing the best we can with the resources we have and what the conditions allow. If that's not good enough.... sorry.

[W. Dean Furr]

Jul 29, 2013 11:19:42 GMT -5 dewittpayne said:

Which classes besides stock were in run group 3? It would be interesting to break them out of the results and compare PAX times to get an idea about the wet/dry time difference.
.

I know Prep ran in Group 3. I think Inter did too. Best gauge of wet-vs-dry is the Pro group, who made first-run in the dry and second-run in the wet. There are exceptions, but there are enough examples for a good comparison.

Run group would be a great addition to the results, especially when conditions change so much during the day. I may start writing down the run-groups when they are announced.

[W. Dean Furr]

Jul 29, 2013 18:54:02 GMT -5 srduck said:

Oh I'm aware. I do the best I can, man. If you want to step up and be Chief of Timing & Scoring so you can make sure everything runs, just let me know. In the meantime, sometimes things aren't going to go right, and we're just doing the best we can with the resources we have and what the conditions allow. If that's not good enough.... sorry.

Been there, done that. There isn't a position in autocrossing I haven't chaired over the years, including timing and scoring and series chairman. I honestly do understand how tough it is to pull together a top-notch event, and understand in ways folks who have never done it cannot understand. And I do appreciate the fact that CCR events are the best they have ever been. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement. My comments are not intended as personal attacks. I do occasionally lose sight of the fact persons who care about what they are doing are rarely dispassionate about comments, good or bad, and will try to keep that in mind. (That doesn’t mean I won’t speak my mind. I’ll just try to be more diplomatic about it.) As long as the club knows the issues and is working to fix them, that's all I can ask. If you see ways I can help with scoring or any other aspect of the event, I will be GLAD to help, as will most other competitors.

[jprice130]

Here is a compilation of my bloopers (there are many).  Turn on annotations and enjoy a good laugh at my expense!



To prove I don't totally suck, here is my only clean run of the day.  It was good enough for an 88.4, but it's a bit disappointing considering that it was my 2nd run and the course was a little less wet during my 3rd and 4th runs.  The drying conditions were kind of a catch-22 for me, because there were parts of the course that had good grip and helped me get up to speed, but then I'd hit a section that was still pretty slick and around I went...

[orestes85]

Unfortunately I left my GoPro at home in Fayetteville. I spent my first 3 runs just trying to remember where I was supposed to go.

[PinkBimmer]

Nice work Joe all we need now is video of the cone I got stuck on front of car and was shooting water up, that was so funny.... Really got to remember my camera next time.

[robbiesolesbee]

Sorry I missed this one. I was living off of Tramadol after the nerves in my lower spine did their own song and dance. and it's hard to drive when you don't know from on minute to the next if you can feel your legs. I get a lumbar injection today so I should be good to go in a few weeks. See y'all at the 24.

[belcher]

The rain and delay really gave me a major "brainfart". That poor corner worker at the far end whose eyes kept getting bigger as I was wondering " who put a lamppost in the middle of the course?"

[jprice130]

Jul 30, 2013 3:41:37 GMT -5 PinkBimmer said:

Nice work Joe all we need now is video of the cone I got stuck on front of car and was shooting water up, that was so funny.... Really got to remember my camera next time.

The water-spraying cone definitely would have completed the blooper reel!  

[srduck]

Jul 29, 2013 19:31:54 GMT -5 W. Dean Furr said:

If you see ways I can help with scoring or any other aspect of the event, I will be GLAD to help, as will most other competitors.

We're always looking for help unpacking the trailers, running power cords, running timing cables, getting tables set up for registration, getting the EZ-Up set up, getting the display board set up, getting the TV in place, getting the laptops up and running, etc. Get there with us at 6am and help get that all sorted out so D'Amico and I can get in more than one course walk, and it would be greatly appreciated. And if you can get a Dymo printer that seems to work every third time it's hooked up to work every time it's hooked up, that would be great too. Tonight I have to unpack it and work on it for the hillclimb this weekend.

[Frodo]

Is someone really getting up in arms about the PA and timing display TV not being set-up after the monsoon?? Wow...it's funny because I don't remember seeing that person running back and forth from the timing trailer to the EZ up to help keep that equipment dry. I mean unless you're going to fork out the money to pay for a new TV with it's nice case, a new laptop, and a brand new PA system then you really have no place to whine about having to walk your @$$ in the wet to the timing trailer to see your times like the rest of us had too.

And srduck your last post is backwards a little bit.

[Captain Avg.]

Well Joe, if you had been any faster on your clean run you would have hit two workers... what's that, a +10? Nice driving, and thanks for the blooper reel... it was almost like I was back in T-balls car :-D.

[jprice130]

Jul 30, 2013 9:55:04 GMT -5 Captain Avg. said:

Well Joe, if you had been any faster on your clean run you would have hit two workers... what's that, a +10? Nice driving, and thanks for the blooper reel... it was almost like I was back in T-balls car :-D.

Thanks Alan, I'm glad my crazy driving helped bring back some fun memories for you.  I know you've been hoping for another display of my "fresh" break-dancing skills, so hopefully all the footage of my spins will get you by.  I also noticed a couple course workers making a run for it as I approached on my clean run.  At least they weren't cleaning up my mess on that particular run.  lol!

[ein86]

Jul 30, 2013 9:55:04 GMT -5 Captain Avg. said:

it was almost like I was back in T-balls car :-D.

Oh what? My spin wasnt enough fun for you??
......sheesh.....

[W. Dean Furr]

Jul 30, 2013 8:49:33 GMT -5 srduck said:

Jul 29, 2013 19:31:54 GMT -5 W. Dean Furr said:

If you see ways I can help with scoring or any other aspect of the event, I will be GLAD to help, as will most other competitors.

We're always looking for help unpacking the trailers, running power cords, running timing cables, getting tables set up for registration, getting the EZ-Up set up, getting the display board set up, getting the TV in place, getting the laptops up and running, etc. Get there with us at 6am and help get that all sorted out so D'Amico and I can get in more than one course walk, and it would be greatly appreciated. And if you can get a Dymo printer that seems to work every third time it's hooked up to work every time it's hooked up, that would be great too. Tonight I have to unpack it and work on it for the hillclimb this weekend.

Steven, I'm still sorry my original post offended you. It was NOT my intent that you would take it personally. I have deleted the post. As I said, I'll try to be more diplomatic in the future.
And I really DO have a damned good idea how much work you're putting into this. You won't know yourself how much work you are putting into it until your time in the barrel is done and you suddenly find you are enjoying autocross more and are running two seconds quicker just because you Do have time to walk the course!

[W. Dean Furr]

Jul 30, 2013 9:32:28 GMT -5 Frodo said:

Is someone really getting up in arms about the PA and timing display TV not being set-up after the monsoon?? Wow...

Frodo: Nope, no one is up in arms. Wasn't then; still not now. And I understood why the electronics were down. I was a bit frustrated by not having feedback on penalties, and could have phrased my concerns much more diplomatically than I did. I apologize to Steven and anyone else who was offended by my phrasing. (I have deleted the post since then. Honestly, it wasn't worth the grief it seemed to be causing. In the big picture, my complaint was minor.) I did not know results were displayed at the trailer. Your post was the first I heard of this. I looked, but I guess I missed it. My fault for not looking more closely. I'll be more alert next time. And, back to what should have been the key point, THANK YOU to the folks who went out of their way to let me know about my DNF so I could get it right! It was a fun course and a good day, rain or shine.

[05astock]

Jul 29, 2013 21:05:14 GMT -5 jprice130 said:

Here is a compilation of my bloopers (there are many).  Turn on annotations and enjoy a good laugh at my expense!



To prove I don't totally suck, here is my only clean run of the day.  It was good enough for an 88.4, but it's a bit disappointing considering that it was my 2nd run and the course was a little less wet during my 3rd and 4th runs.  The drying conditions were kind of a catch-22 for me, because there were parts of the course that had good grip and helped me get up to speed, but then I'd hit a section that was still pretty slick and around I went...

Dang joe? I remember how Impressed I was last year at the 24 when you drove in the rain. Shame shame hahaha

[jprice130]

Jul 31, 2013 6:35:46 GMT -5 05astock said:

Dang joe? I remember how Impressed I was last year at the 24 when you drove in the rain. Shame shame hahaha

Ha, ha, I know!  See what happens to me when you go away for a year?  

[1slowcrx]

Personally (and from 9 years of auto-xing all across the country) it's not the clubs responsibility to tell you you're DNF'ing. The announcing, time slips, the TV, etc are all luxuries most clubs try to provide. Sometimes obstacles prevent that from happening.

Still... It's YOUR responsibility to walk course and understand where it goes and were it doesn't. I often drive poorly, I guess that's the clubs fault for not telling me where I'm losing time?!?!

Considering the weather and lower turnout on a large course with lot's of worker stations. I think CCR did a fantastic job. I've been running event with CCR since 2005 and the current regime is doing as good or better than I've seen with the club's solo program.

[belcher]

When I DNF I usually know before the corner worker and tell them. LOL. Funny I usually DNF AFTER my first run. Talk about short term memory loss!

[trdriver]

Jul 31, 2013 12:52:29 GMT -5 1slowcrx said:

Personally (and from 9 years of auto-xing all across the country) it's not the clubs responsibility to tell you you're DNF'ing. The announcing, time slips, the TV, etc are all luxuries most clubs try to provide. Sometimes obstacles prevent that from happening.

Still... It's YOUR responsibility to walk course and understand where it goes and were it doesn't. I often drive poorly, I guess that's the clubs fault for not telling me where I'm losing time?!?!

Considering the weather and lower turnout on a large course with lot's of worker stations. I think CCR did a fantastic job. I've been running event with CCR since 2005 and the current regime is doing as good or better than I've seen with the club's solo program.

I haven't complained about anything and don't intend to complain now, so please nobody take this as a complaint. I don't even want to complain about complainers because I don't want to be seen as a complainer. But I would like to make a general observation about DNFs that may or may not be particularly relevant to our latest event .
I hope that is enough disclaimers that nobody will take this personally.

Anyway...
Yes, it's everybody's responsibility to walk the course and get acquainted with it so they will know where they are going - guided novice walks are made available at every CCR Autocross to help with that.
BUT when there are an abnormally high percentage of DNFs at a particular event, WE (including myself as a CCR member) should take a hard look at some things that may contribute to that that just are not the drivers fault.
Course design can contribute. When you finish one element, the next element should not be too far out of the drivers line of sight. I'm pretty sure that's in Roger Johnson's design manual along with statements to the effect that a course that garners too many DNFs is a poorly designed course.
Course marking (or lack thereof) can contribute. If the next element is borderline in peripheral vision there should be some pointer cones to aim the driver in the right direction. When a design is aimed at using all the available space in a really big lot, we need to make sure we don't have to skimp on directional cones just to not run out of cones.

I think most of us, who have done this for a while KNOW when we DNF - on the other hand, if a lot of people are DNFing a lot and don't know where it happened, then WE as hosts should recognize that there were probably factors involved that we should address and avoid in the future.

DISCLAIMER: Nothing in the above remarks is intended to refer to any actual living person or any actual, specific event that has ever occurred in the known universe.

Peace and Love,
Jack Mc

[yellow CR]

I agree the course did have some difficult elements to find, in particular the elements before the funnel and I will make a note for future courses.

But I feel the conditions led to a big percentage of DNF's. With some people staying on race tires, lack of working defrosters, and other in seat shenanigans, the DNF's were bound to happen. I DNF'ed on my second run, and rather start a Joe Price Waterspout, I gave up on making the next element.

During run group 1, 19 tire class cars all took 4 runs in the dry and only had 3 DNF's in 76 runs. That is not excessive. But as the weather conditions deteriorated, the DNF's came in high numbers.

[W. Dean Furr]

Jul 31, 2013 12:52:29 GMT -5 1slowcrx said:

Personally (and from 9 years of auto-xing all across the country) it's not the clubs responsibility to tell you you're DNF'ing. The announcing, time slips, the TV, etc are all luxuries most clubs try to provide. Sometimes obstacles prevent that from happening.

Still... It's YOUR responsibility to walk course and understand where it goes and were it doesn't. I often drive poorly, I guess that's the clubs fault for not telling me where I'm losing time?!?!

Considering the weather and lower turnout on a large course with lot's of worker stations. I think CCR did a fantastic job. I've been running event with CCR since 2005 and the current regime is doing as good or better than I've seen with the club's solo program.

On your first point, see SCCA Rules Mandatory Provisions section 1.3.2G (the section on page 25, not I.1.2.3). "Penalties for course deviations or course marker displacement shall be posted and available to all competitors." CCR usually does a divisional-quality job of this, with the information available at the finish or within fifteen minutes of the run at a timing display.

On our second point, I do agree the fault for learning the course incorrectly was mine and mine alone, as I said in an earlier post. That does not make me any less appreciative of the member who took the time to let me know before I made the same mistake again.

I also agree with your final point: The CCR autocross program is the best it has ever been. I say that as someone who should know: I have been autocrossing since 1977, and with CCR for more than twenty years. I have held positions of responsibility with four different clubs, including autocross chairmen with two of them, three years as autocross co-chair with CCR, three years as NCAC chairman in the travelling road-show years, and three years as chairman for the Chimney Rock Hillclimb. And, like you, I have autocrossed with several clubs (at least twenty), earning a Divisional championship, ten state championships, and I-don't-know-how-many club championships along the way. When I say the CCR events are the best ever, I should know. I am glad we both hold CCR in high regard. As I also said earlier, I will try to be more diplomatic when I see opportunities for further improvement. I owe that much to the persons who have worked so hard to bring the club to its current state.

[drum3]

The weather was the main factor in the DNFs . The one are where several mentioned DNFing was a series of three gates with the center gate offset to one side . People were straight lining between the 1st and 3rd gates and skipping the offset . It was directly in your line of site and plenty of room between elements . The reflective wet surfaces changed many perspectives and I suspect was the biggest reason many missed it ,
And the results were available immediately after your runs , at the trailer .
Dean , in all fairness , the info was readily available and had you went looking to see where the TV and announce had been moved to you would have found out the info was available at the trailer . I had a question on my run , asked where the info was now and was directed to the front of the trailer . As per SCCA Rules Mandatory Provisions section 1.3.2G , the info was posted and available to all ....Despite this info being readily available you didnt go looking for it because you thought you had ran the course correctly . Again , this didnt fall on the Club or any of the workers , it would have fallen on the participant for not seeking out the info or asking one of the officials for a clarification , mostly because the participant had no idea a DNF had happened . I'm sorry you didnt get the info you wanted , but it was available , we just had to walk to the trailer to find it .
Again THANKS WORKERS , and Mike D'amico !!

[dewittpayne]

When I walked the course in the morning, I thought about suggesting that a pointer cone be added to that gate, but never got around to it. If this comes up again, who should I talk to?