New CAM class clarification for Carolinas Region ?

[sfsvettes]

The new CAM class has created quite a buzz in the old muscle car circles.
Can anyone clarify if the region is going to enforce the year model appendix B ?
Cars pre 1983 or 1979 etc ??
I think it should be 1983 and back in one class & 1984 & up in another etc ?
I would like to pass the word among the old school guys to come out and have some fun in the old cars if they are
going to be classified in a pre 1983 class etc ?
Thanks

[gxpmatt]

The SCCA proposal was for all cars eligible for CAM to be in the same class, so no year split. Would that make owners of older cars less likely to show up? I'd be surprised if very many newer cars signed up in CAM since they have so many other classes to run in. If we get a strong contingent of muscle car owners showing up and they are requesting a class for 83 and older cars I bet we could make that happen, but that would be up to the event leadership. Tell everyone to show up, the courses at zMax are always a blast no matter what you are driving!

[drum3]

Actually the original proposal was for pre-1973 cars only in CAM ,, CLASSIC American Muscle Cars. It didnt show up in the Solomatters release but the plan was to follow the GoodGuys rules to the letter so cars could run with both organizations.

[sfsvettes]

Jan 22, 2014 18:51:19 GMT -5 drum3 said:

Actually the original proposal was for pre-1973 cars only in CAM ,, CLASSIC American Muscle Cars. It didnt show up in the Solomatters release but the plan was to follow the GoodGuys rules to the letter so cars could run with both organizations.

That works for me !!!!!

[properone]

This new class affects me in no way shape or form but I am still excited about it. Mostly I just hope it brings some cool cars to look at in paddock. The SoloMatters release, however, led me to believe that the class included everything even up to brand new Camaros -- which I thought was strange.

[cr89x]

Sean I agree that seeing some cool older muscle cars will be exciting. Many CCR members have some cool older cars that would be great to see them out on our courses.

[sfsvettes]

There will be at least 4 or 5 of us coming out to have some fun in the pre 80's cars for the CAM class or BSP.
We want to have some fun, It would be nice if we had our own muscle car class, But , I for one, will still come out for the fun of it, even if I am not competitive.

[yellow CR]

The CAM class has options according to the SCCA rules, saying you can do a single class or 2 classes split into pre and post 1973. I am wiling to add the single CAM class to our autocross events.

So go bring some friends, get your drive on and have some fun with CCR.

[ziggy]

Jan 29, 2014 16:32:42 GMT -5 yellow CR said:

The CAM class has options according to the SCCA rules, saying you can do a single class or 2 classes split into pre and post 1973. I am wiling to add the single CAM class to our autocross events.

So go bring some friends, get your drive on and have some fun with CCR.

So, I'll be able to bring my 72 Nova out and run against a 2013 Corvette Z06??  Why would I do that?

Not real inviting.

What part of "CLASSIC" American Muscle do we not understand?

Thanks

[sfsvettes]

Ah, Come on out and have some fun in the Nova Ziggy. We can still have a good time. I agree with you in the fact that the class is not being used as it was intended, but if enough of the old muscle cars show up and participate , things can change.. It's all about the fun for me .. Not the points etc. The fun & fellowship are #1 for me !
I hope to see your Nova in action soon
Regards

[ziggy]

Jan 30, 2014 8:10:47 GMT -5 sfsvettes said:

Ah, Come on out and have some fun in the Nova Ziggy. We can still have a good time. I agree with you in the fact that the class is not being used as it was intended, but if enough of the old muscle cars show up and participate , things can change.. It's all about the fun for me .. Not the points etc. The fun & fellowship are #1 for me !
I hope to see your Nova in action soon
Regards

Sorry sfsvettes, but I have to respectfully disagree.

If you read the original proposal, the CAM class was proposed to help bridge the gap between the Pro Touring/Old Muscle Car crowd that run at events like GoodGuys and the local SCCA chapters, and provide a class that the muscle cars could have a chance to be competitive. If there isn't a model year break, then like I said earlier, there's no incentive to come to these events and run against   newer supercars like Z06's, Vipers, etc.

Might as well run in a full on race prepared class, as you'll have the same chance of being competitive.

If we're just going out to have fun, there's no need to create a new class, but isn't this about competition?

[gxpmatt]

Like I said I would be incredibly surprised if any new cars run in CAM, since they have other good classes to run in. I could run my Solstice in CAM but it really doesn't make sense, so I won't. Bring the Nova, it'll be fun!

I think the reason that they combined all the years though, is that the suspension and powertrain are completely unlimited so you should be able to theoretically equalize performance with a newer car.

[ziggy]

"Like I said I would be incredibly surprised if any new cars run in CAM"---
Actually, if you go to some of the corvette forums, there are quite a few guys with later model cars gearing up to run this class.


"I think the reason that they combined all the years though, is that the suspension and powertrain are completely unlimited so you should be able to theoretically equalize performance with a newer car."---
The bulk of the Pro Touring guys are working on a limited budget. That being said, most do what they can, but can't afford to install suspensions equal to what is under a later model supercar. I believe that was the thinking behind doing a model year split. In the world of GM products, 1982 and older seems to be a reasonable break. Some later model pickups/suv's will out handle a car from the 60's-70's.

"Bring the Nova, it'll be fun!"--- I agree, but only if there's a chance to run near the front. If the playing field is somewhat level, and I'm a bunch slower, at least I know I can work at it and have a chance. But with the late models in the class, there's pretty much not a chance.

I don't see why a class split would be a big deal.

Thanks

[yellow CR]

I don't have a problem with a split class if you can fill them with a good number of cars. If we do split classes and only have 3 drivers in one class and 1 driver in the second, this is where I have an issue. If you can get a good number of cars in both classes, I'd gladly separate them.

How does Goodguy's or anyone else separate older and newer cars at their autocross competitions?

[ziggy]

Mike,

Thanks for at least considering split classes


Here is the Good Guys model year breakdown from their rules---

Street Machine Class:

All vehicles must be 1955 to 1972 in appearance, representing a production car.
Goodguys Get-Togethers at Pleasanton will be 1955 and newer.

Hot Rod Class:

All vehicles must be 1954 or older cars in appearance, no trucks, deliveries or panels allowed in this class.
High-Boys and Roadsters are not required to run fenders or hood sides.

Truck Class:

Must be 1972 or older at the National events and all year trucks at the Pleasanton Get-Togethers.
Any vehicle with a Bed, Panel trucks, Deliveries, El Caminos and Rancheros will be in this class.
1940 and older trucks are not required to run fenders or hood sides.
Fuel tanks do NOT have to be in stock location but must be securely mounted.

All American Late Models:

All American Made or American Powered 1973 and newer cars and trucks will be in this class and can only run on Sundays at the Nationals events.
Tread wear should be production equipped rate or 200 minimum.

[belcher]

I don't think they do. At they didn't when they started having auto-x's. It started more as a fun thing to do sponsored by some air bag company. Plus most of their events are '72 and earlier.

There was a guy that ran a clapped out Desoto. It was sitting on either a C4 C5 chassis. Good guys cars are so modified I can't even begin to figure out how to class them.


EDIT: I've been corrected. I guess Auto-x got big with them. Cool.

[yellow CR]

At the moment the SCCA is asking for feedback from the regions and competitors on how to accommodate this new CAM classes to our solo events. Right now they are just making suggestions.

I'd be willing to add a 2 CAM classes based upon the year. The SCCA suggests splitting the classes up at 1973 or 1983. I think a split at 1983 is a good starting point this year, as more data input is needed to see what should be done for this up and coming class.

[sfsvettes]

Thanks Mike,
That sounds like a plan to me !
Let's get on board for some fun
Come on out Mr. Ziggy, I want to see that Nova dude...

[drum3]

I think splitting them at 1978 makes the most sense . This eliminates the Fox Body Mustang which many feel would be an overdog because of all of the options , support and technolgy that has went into those cars .

You guys do realize we have 10-12 Protouring cars locally that are basically built off C5 Vette chassis or at the very least have extensive suspension and engine mods that put them well above most of the cars that will run this class . The new Vettes wouldnt have much if any advantage over them. Make no mistake , this class was designed for high end Pro cars.

[cr89x]

Coming out should be more about the fun than the competition factor. To me the CAM class will allow the older muscle cars to come out and have fun amongst themselves. I don't quite agree with the worry of having a 70s nova against a modern z06 because there are better pre existing classes the z06s do well in and fit better. If I had an older American car, the simple thought of being able to bring it out and stretch its legs, not just in a straight line, is very inviting. I will admit I am an import guy, but the thought of seeing Novas, camaros, mustangs, ventures, gtos, all the nice old muscle cars going around an autox course puts a BIG smile on my face. I hope you guys get a fair number of people out.

[rchaskin]

I like all of this Nova talk......

I like the CAM class idea.  Last year, I did Metrolina (Almost got ejected..) and ZMax, and just ran in STO.

I hope to do several SCCA events this year.

Looking forward to it!!

[philip1]

I like the idea of muscle cars chasing cones. I wish my truck was allowed in this class but XP is where I fit.

[drum3]

trucks are allowed in CAM .

[philip1]

I suppose I could run in the late model cam but I would not be competitive if anything truly set up came.

[philip1]

what are the CAM class designations CAM and CAM2 ?

[drum3]

Feb 2, 2014 22:42:49 GMT -5 philip1 said:

I suppose I could run in the late model cam but I would not be competitive if anything truly set up came.

So you dont think you will be competitive in CAM but you will be in XP

[yellow CR]

insert code here

Feb 3, 2014 5:17:16 GMT -5 philip1 said:

what are the CAM class designations CAM and CAM2 ?

CAM A will be 1954 to 1983 and CAM B will be 1983 to present, as the SCCA suggested as one of the possibilities.

[teddbere]

I'd suggest you put the PAX value above AS (.833) so the AS Z06 corvettes don't jump into the CAM class (0.827) to get a season points advantage. The Good Guys still get to play together and have a chance to win against each other and the AS Z06 competitors won't Class jump to pick up freebee points that they wouldn't normally get.

Thoughts?

Heck, I'd probably just ban C5+ corvettes and all Vipers from the CAM class altogether.

[drum3]

The new CAM class will most likely get an .840-.838 PAX . That has been the most recent recomendations.

[philip1]

Feb 3, 2014 21:46:06 GMT -5 yellow CR said:

insert code here

Feb 3, 2014 5:17:16 GMT -5 philip1 said:

what are the CAM class designations CAM and CAM2 ?

CAM A will be 1954 to 1983 and CAM B will be 1983 to present, as the SCCA suggested as one of the possibilities.

good to know