CMP-PDE

[jhd11]

Good Morning!
Nice look to the web site. Looking at the info for the upcoming PDE @ Kershaw, it looks completly different than last year. Is it going to be run like a PDE or a Club Trial? Will it be a competition or just track time? Or does anyone know?? Thanks.

Joe Downer

[racins4]

there will be 2 events that weekend... a TRACK TRIALS (solo 1) and HPDE. The HPDE will have classroom time as well as Instructors in the car with the students...

more info on this page:
www.ccrscca.com/PDEApril.htm

This should be fun for all...

[jhd11]

Last year the event was billed as a PDE but was run as a "Club Trials" event on the upper part of CMP while the "Track Trials" aka Solo I was run at the same time on the lower part of the track. The "PDE" was actually a timed competition. Am I safe to assume that is not the case in 2006? Or will the event be as run in 2005? Thanks.

Joe Downer

[oldgiracer]

Joe:

The plan is to run the full track for both events according to a fairly tight schedule. We are looking to run 5 laps with 3 "hot". We will be timimg with transponders (we'll have them available for folks who don't own one). Passing will be the order of the day. There will be more on the website shortly about the format. Hope to see you there!
Tony Wentworth

[Brian Gause]

The Track Trial will run the full 2.2 mile road course for the April event. The PDE also will run on an alternating schedule the full course.

[racins4]

Just a final note -- There are 2 Events being run that weekend...

HPDE event (like most other clubs... Porsche, Audi, BMW)
TRACK TRIALS event (SOLO 1)

Both events will be running the full course....

The schedule will be just a like any HPDE with run groups... the only difference is the TRACK TRIALS people get there own RUN GROUP (ie TrackTrials, Advanced(PDE), Intermediate(PDE), Novice(PDE))

The HPDE event is a DRIVING SCHOOL not a RACE!!!!!! You will have an Instructor in the car with you at all times -- there will be classroom sessions.

You cannot compare last summers event with this event.... This is going to be totally different and a lot fun....

If you have any questions email me.. [e-mail]

Coy Gillenwater
Chief Instructor

[MarkT]

Any idea when registration will open for TT? Will it be on MyAutoEvents?

[m3]

Well, I thought I finally understood what this event was, but now I'm confused again

I have a pretty firm grasp on what a PDE is (NOT racing, NOT timed laps, etc), but I'm still pretty confused about the Track Trials portion (Solo 1?).

So, I have a single yes/no question that will help me determine whether or not I want to cancel my plans to attend.

QUESTION: My car is legal for Autocross competition. It does NOT have a roll bar/cage, racing seat, harness, window nets, fire extinguisher, etc. I DO have a M00 helmet and (of course) cotton based long pants and shirts. WILL I BE ALLOWED TO RUN FLAT OUT AS FAST AS I CAN GO ON AN EMPTY TRACK WITH THE TIMER RUNNING? The only possible answers I'm looking for are "yes" or "no". Thanks.

[racins4]

In short == NO.... but if you attend the HPDE -- you will be able to run FLAT OUT -- AS FAST AS YOU CAN -- and as a bonus my learn something from your instructor -- that will make you go EVEN FASTER....

See Ya

Coy

[m3]

Thanks for clearing that up. I am a little disappointed, as I thought it would be essentially the same event as last year, BUT, I may come out anyway. Now I just need to figure out how to come up with some more $$$; $265 is considerable more than last year (but then again, last year was just one day).

Hopefully I'll see you guys down there.

[mdc]

Just want to know is the entry fee the same for
the Time Trial as the PDE?

[neonracer]

A question about driver classification: Do you have to meet all the requirements at a particular level to be classed at that level?

For instance, I've had 3 or more track day experiences, I've been on track at CMP before, but I don't have the rest of what's listed under "Intermediate". So am I a "Novice" or "Intermediate".

-Michael

Novice
Has not attended a track day before
Has not been on track at CMP before
Has less than 2 recorded track days experience
Does not hold a SCCA Race or Track Trials license and
Has not competed in a SCCA Track Trials event.

Intermediate
Has 3 or more track day experiences
Has been on track at CMP before
Holds a SCCA club race or Track Trials license
Has competed in SCCA Race or Track Trials event.
Has evidence of equivalent track experience

Advanced
Has 5 or more track days experience
Holds a SCCA club race or Track Trials license
Has been on track at CMP before
Has evidence of equivalent track experience

[m3]

I have basically the same question as Michael. I've been to two Track Days -- both at Road Atlanta. I've never been to CMP and I don't hold a competition license. However, given my experience at the much more daunting Road Atlanta (and years of autoxing), I just don't consider myself a Novice. Is there any leeway with the Novice/Intermediate groups?

Another question: If I must start in Novice, can I move up to Intermediate if it becomes obvious I don't belong in there?

[loboracer]

Shane & Michael:

Dont get distracted by the label or grouping name. Solo experience and Track experience are both automotive events requiring focus by the driver. The intent of the PDX, is to provide the track experience (High Speed) with immidiate feedback and instruction. You are on track the same amount of time as the advanced student. Have the opportunity to get signed off to run solo, after you've proven your skill and ability to handle different track conditions. Solo experince helps, but is not the same as track experience. I know that many people have a hard time undertstanding the differences. I also have had solo experience and track and race. Each step in the ladder requires more attention from the drive to get into the zone. Solo last 45 to 60 seconds. Track time is 20 minutes. 14 turns every 140 seconds for 1200 seconds.

[m3]

Ok, what group do I sign up for then?

[crash477]

I will be there! Thanks to my free entry certificate I won at the banquet!!!!

[loboracer]

Shane:

IT seems that we might still have some confusion. I want clear this up. Please call me after business hours at 704-258-1655.

[eyerace]

question.....open wheel cars allowed for the track trial/solo 1 [e-mail]

[loboracer]

Open wheel cars can not run with Full Bodied cars. The intent with the PDE is to provide an instructor, few open wheel cars are have 2 seats.

[m3]

OK, I've made a decision. I'm GOING!!!

Credit card be damned!

[loboracer]

Really glad to hear that your coming Shane. Parts of CMP can be hard on brake pads and fluids. I use MOTUL RBF 600 Factory Line in my golf, and fixed my spongy brakes. No fade what's so ever since then. Know a S4 driver who runs all of the time.

[m3]

After 2 days at Road Atlanta, BELIEVE ME, I know how much harder a real race track is on brakes.

A brake fluid change is definitely on my to-do list. I also plan to bring extra fluid and tools in case I need to bleed them part way through the event.

[Warp3]

So far there has been FAR more information about this event than the previous HPDE and Solo Trials events and I sincerely appreciate that. (I was at last years HPDE/Club Trials hybrid event and loved every minute of it.)

A friend I know was originally going to be running the HPDE at this event (partly so he would be running with me vs. being split up if he ran the Solo 1/Track Trials portion), but since it looks to be instructor led this year, that may not end up being possible. Here's the deal: He has an F-Production Mk1 MR2 that he was going to be running at one of the road-race double-drivers schools earlier this season (he originally signed up for CMP, then Roebling when the CMP event was canceled), but delays in getting a tech inspection and delays on his tax refund prevented that from happening (the car is fully prepped for FP, though, including all safety requirements...cage, fuel cell, harnesses, fire system, etc.). Regardless, due to the cage design (it has a "Petty" bar), there is no passenger seat, nor can it support one.

I'm guessing this eliminates him from running the HPDE, but is the track trials (i.e. Solo 1) portion of the event still available to him? (He has no racing licenses at the moment, but IIRC a Solo 1 Novice license can be obtained onsite (or at least they could in the past), right?)

Oh and back on the HPDE topic...I agree that the brakes can get a thorough workout, even on a half-track event. The 98-01 2.5RS has very decent brakes for it's weight (in fact the only difference in brakes on the notably heavier 02+ WRX is a slightly larger rotor in the front, the rear rotors and all four calipers/pads are exactly the same). Last year I was running Carbotech Bobcats (fast road / autocross compound) with Motul RBF600 fluid (with Goodridge SS lines) on an otherwise stock brake system (the car is prepped for Street Mod and makes an estimated 200hp to the flywheel, based on recent dyno results). In addition I had recently switched to 225/50-15 V710s, which generate a good bit more grip than the Victoracers I was previously running). I got zero fade during the event (1/2 lap of warm up, 2 hot laps, and 1/2 lap of cool down around "CMP West"), but by the end of each run on the second day (when my braking got much later) the Bobcats were seriously smoking (though to their credit they never even showed signs of reduced capability). This time I'm bringing pads that are a bit more track oriented (probably either Panther P+ or Panther XP pads). (I also planned to have brake ducts before this year's CMP event as well, but that hasn't quite work out yet.)

[m3]

Which hotel(s) are you guys planning to use?

Which of the 5 listed are least expensive/closest to CMP?

[Warp3]

Executive Inn is the closest (it's the only one listed that is in Kershaw and is only about 4 miles from the track) and usually the cheapest as well (it's also where I usually stay). The Colony Inn in Camden has been pretty popular as well (though it doesn't seem to be on the list). The big advantages of the non-Kershaw hotels is the existence of civilization (Wal-Mart, restaurants, etc.) in the other locales vs the lack of such stores in Kershaw.

[m3]

Cool, thanks.

Just made reservations. I CAN'T FREAKIN' WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave Cutchins]

eyerace said:

question.....open wheel cars allowed for the track trial/solo 1 [e-mail]

I do not believe "eyerace" got the answer to his question "are open wheel cars allowed for the track trial/solo 1 "

I too have an open wheel Formula Car and ran at last year's event (Time Trials).

[loboracer]

Sorry about the confusion I might have cause.
Open wheel cars are allowed in the Track Trial.
They must conform to the rules for roll bars, as does any full bodied car in the Ttrack Trial.

[neonracer]

loboracer said:

Open wheel cars can not run with Full Bodied cars. The intent with the PDE is to provide an instructor, few open wheel cars are have 2 seats.

I noticed at least three Formula cars have preregistered for the PDE.

[ffhillclimber]

Sorry, I've cancelled the PDE and registered for the Track Trials with the formula ford. Just a little confusion.
Stan Vann