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Post by cr89x on May 30, 2012 5:56:22 GMT -5
Mother nature. What can you do. It was hard for me to make the call but it had to be done. So much work goes into this event.
I know many are disappointed including myself and a lot of our core workers, pro class drivers. Thank you for those that have said kind words to me and publicly the last couple days. You have no idea how much it means to hear positives.
Definitely a hats off to group 3 workers especially for being flexible. Brought you off course, put you back on course, re marked all of the cones and quickly, and even were nice enough to stack the cones. Thank you!
There is another CMP autox coming up in July. Keep an eye on numerous forums for that announcement coming soon. It is not a CCR event.
The vouchers are good for CCR events. The value on them are wrong, no worries, they'll be excepted at zMax. For SCR and NCR folks, I'm going to try to work out an alternative.
Thank you everyone that came down. It was amazing to see such high attendance.
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Post by 05astock on May 30, 2012 6:08:35 GMT -5
but will it count towards the minimum events needed for points champonship
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Post by jprice130 on May 30, 2012 8:16:07 GMT -5
I hear ya buddy (group 4) as well. working out there in run group 2 was gnarly on station 5 ..radio didnt work at the end , I could barely make out control..just that they wanted to talk to me about something..eerrr. But hats off for sending new blood out there early. But the course looked so great... I did get to ride with greg P in the black 04 sti ...man what a great driver, super nice as well, thanks man for the ride. Greg gave me a ride as well and he was really cool. Fast too! I think he ended up with something in the 55 second range. One of the lowest times I saw all day. Way to go Greg! |
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Post by turtle8 on May 30, 2012 8:34:02 GMT -5
Thanks to CCR for letting us set up to promote our business and sell some autocross numbers. We had some software issues and of course weather issues that shut us done for a time. We do appreciate the few sales we did have and the contacts we made. DS803 will try to make it to the Black Lake for our next event.
-Michael
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Post by toyzforme on May 30, 2012 12:20:11 GMT -5
Does anybody have the results for those of us that got to run. I would like to see where I was. I was the first run group 67 ESP blue slate Infiniti G37
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Post by ball80 on May 30, 2012 12:52:37 GMT -5
Who gets vouchers?
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Post by SteveCouture on May 30, 2012 12:56:24 GMT -5
Wow. Sounds like a repeat from two (three?) years ago, and that was a disaster.
Definitely takes the sting out of not being able to make it to CMP this time.
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Post by illbebetter on May 30, 2012 14:00:40 GMT -5
I think everyone did a great job at this event. This would have been my first event on a track. I was in group three and got one very cautious run on a wet track. I was very disappointed when we had the car go off and it started to rain again causing the event to be called off. I look foward to trying again at a later date.
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Post by W. Dean Furr on May 30, 2012 20:36:16 GMT -5
Did Donna post a reason? Is that for CCR, or for SCR?
CCR faced the same situation two years ago: Ran two of four groups at CMP, then halted the event due to weather and delays. I think they counted the event for points in classes that actually ran, and refunded entry fees to those that did not. I don't remember how they handled classes that were split across groups such as Novice.
Dumping the points sounds like a good way to ensure EVERYONE at the event is upset, not just those who did not run. For those of us struggling to wrap our work-schedule around all these Saturday events in CCR, it might well make the difference between having a chance at running enough events to qualify for year-end, and not having a chance. (Then again, the same is true already for those who were in group 4 at this event.)
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Post by W. Dean Furr on May 30, 2012 20:55:07 GMT -5
I just dug back through the records from two years ago, and it looks like CCR cancelled the points from the 2010 CMP weather-shortened event.
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Post by Ashley on May 30, 2012 21:39:37 GMT -5
Stupid mother nature. /end rant
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Post by Frodo on May 31, 2012 3:30:41 GMT -5
Wow. Sounds like a repeat from two (three?) years ago, and that was a disaster. Definitely takes the sting out of not being able to make it to CMP this time. Two years ago. What sucked about that event was that the rain literally came out of nowhere. |
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Post by cr89x on May 31, 2012 5:54:42 GMT -5
Ashley, rotfl.
Dean, I'm fairly sure we went about the same procedure a few years ago. Thank you for looking that up for me.
Donna posted on behalf of SCR but that is how I told her that CCR is going to handle it. I'm sorry that I didn't clearly state that with my other post. This event will not count for points. I have gotten numerous phone calls on this matter. There is no real fair way to go about it for everyone.
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Post by integra55 on May 31, 2012 14:26:22 GMT -5
well AJ ... just between you and me, I'd settle for you having your 2 runs and my 1 run and going ahead and counting them for points LOL
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Post by dstan on May 31, 2012 19:53:36 GMT -5
Did Donna post a reason? Is that for CCR, or for SCR? CCR faced the same situation two years ago: Ran two of four groups at CMP, then halted the event due to weather and delays. I think they counted the event for points in classes that actually ran, and refunded entry fees to those that did not. I don't remember how they handled classes that were split across groups such as Novice. Dumping the points sounds like a good way to ensure EVERYONE at the event is upset, not just those who did not run. For those of us struggling to wrap our work-schedule around all these Saturday events in CCR, it might well make the difference between having a chance at running enough events to qualify for year-end, and not having a chance. (Then again, the same is true already for those who were in group 4 at this event.) How can you see it is fair if everyone does not run, that points should count? I have no dog in this fight but really, you asked this?  How about we allow the 4th run group Novice and Ladies class drivers decide what time they would have ran... that would only be fair |
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ein86
Junior Member
Posts: 61
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Post by ein86 on May 31, 2012 20:40:57 GMT -5
^^This.... And will the results be posted even though they dont count? |
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Post by 05astock on May 31, 2012 21:11:07 GMT -5
what stops you from giving points to the classes that were conplete? ie ASP we all and quite honestly I really needed that event to count towards my minimum events. No where do you compare point between different classes so whats the issue
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Post by cr89x on Jun 1, 2012 5:36:46 GMT -5
All group three and four drivers get vouchers. I would REALLY NOT like to post results
Adam, there are a number of people in that position.
Walter, I know you do but I told you I was going to drive like crap.
Sorry all but points are just not going to be counted. If they did, points for groups three, four, and Novice would automatically count this event as a drop. That is one of the biggest reasons.
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Post by yeahdoug on Jun 1, 2012 8:50:11 GMT -5
Points I understand , but I was looking forward to seeing the results. Without the printer and the live timing not working, I really have no idea how I compared to similiar cars...
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Post by dasautochris on Jun 1, 2012 18:07:11 GMT -5
It would be nice to compare times to see if I'm making any progress.
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Post by integra55 on Jun 1, 2012 19:26:00 GMT -5
Walter, I know you do but I told you I was going to drive like crap. yeah ..?? so what's your point ? I just wanted the points ;D |
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Post by srduck on Jun 1, 2012 19:36:46 GMT -5
How about we allow the 4th run group Novice and Ladies class drivers decide what time they would have ran... that would only be fair Alright... my 3rd run was a 58.3 and my 4th run was a staggering 44.5! FTD BABY!!! |
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Jun 1, 2012 20:00:37 GMT -5
"How can you see it is fair if everyone does not run, that points should count?..."
To be blunt, I was wrong. In the first post, I was under the mistaken impression CCR had counted the points two years ago for classes where all drivers had completed their runs, and thus had a precedent. If that had been the case, it would have been hard to explain why we did it one way two years ago and a different way this year. (The basic concept: In the absence of a new rule, follow the precedent set in previous application of the existing rule.) I immediately checked, and found points were NOT counted two years ago. I posted that new information minutes after the first post. I STILL felt we should follow precedent. But, since we didn’t count points two years ago, following the precedent now meant points should not count this time either. Sorry I did not explicitly state this in the 2nd post. I had assumed others reading the 2nd post would come to the same conclusion I had.
I recognized the issue with classes split between groups, as noted in the first post, and had no idea how that would be handled. I assumed it would be handled as it had two years ago. (Again, follow precedent.) In fact, it was handled exactly the same way. Whether or not I like dropping the points, following the precedent is the fairest of the options available. And that is exactly what the club did.
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Post by soloracer on Jun 1, 2012 20:18:26 GMT -5
Points I understand , but I was looking forward to seeing the results. Without the printer and the live timing not working, I really have no idea how I compared to similiar cars... Since the results were a bit of a WASH, all i can say is that your Mustang was similar in size to some other cars. Sorry, just trying to add a little levity to to the situation. james |
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Jun 1, 2012 20:46:15 GMT -5
Someone has to ask: Realistically, what can we do to ensure autocrosses at this site actually end before the track closes? In the six events I have run at CMP, we've had significant delays for lightning at three of those events, and cancelled the event twice. Having to cancel an event ONCE should be a learning experience for us. Now that we've been burned twice in three years, do we have a plan to stop it from happening again?
I’ve chaired more-than-enough events to recognize it's quite hard to hold a smooth-running autocross at a track, even without bad weather. (Witness the half-hour delay to figure out whose radio was stuck mike-on, and the timing errors early in the day. We started group 1 at 10 and finished at 12. At that pace, we would not have finished by 5 even if the sun had shown all day. And that was before the weather turned bad.) The combination of Kershaw weather and the normal delays for large sites is a proven recipe for disappointment. We’ve got to find a better way.
Half-baked thoughts: Limit to 3 runs if it looks like more than 20% chance of rain, and plan on fun-runs if time allows? (Three runs is much better than zero. Been there.) Make it a non-points event up-front? (That still doesn’t address the matter of going home without running, but it does take care of the points questions up-front. And it might reduce the number of entrants, which would also help shorten the event.) Require registration and tech the night before and hold the drivers’ meeting at 08:00? (Yes, I know that would require an overnight stay, which would also hurt attendance. But I bet it would reduce refund vouchers too, so we might come out ahead.) Make it a 2-day event? (That would only be practical if someone can share the cost by using the east course, such as a PDF or TT.) Run all the groups through two runs, then make two more (or whatever time allows) on a second round of runs? (More worker changes, which tend to be slow anyway.)
Okay, I know none of those ideas is a cure-all. If it was easy, we wouldn't be discussing it.. I listed those ideas in hopes they may trigger someone to come up with a better idea. It’s your turn. How do we make this work?
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Post by tedebayer on Jun 1, 2012 21:09:25 GMT -5
Dean is able to rely on a lot of years of experience and wisdom in SCCA ... and his post is dead on. A lot of good thoughts there. The only thing I would add is... in the search to make it fun, well attended, fair, "weather-proofed"... there is another aspect to consider. Financial feasibility. It costs a lot of money to rent the track and some of our larger sites... and if it looks rainy and no one shows, it costs EXACTLY the same amount. From a high level, it seems easy... we break even, we are good. That's not true. There are other costs in running an event, marketing an event, gas for generators, insurance, track fees, security, EMS, support vehicles hauling equipment and maintenance for them, seed money for deposits on future event site rentals... and money to cover our rears when an event gets rained out. Autocross, Road Race, Time Trial and hillclimb events are expected to pull their own weight... and when they don't the Board needs to understand why so we don't repeat that mistake again. The Financial side of what we do is important so we can keep doing it. Thanks to all who came out to support the event because if people don't come out, we can't rent bigger sites. You vote with your entry. Sorry about the rain... it is a part of all motorsports. For a driver who is passionate about driving, you "Win some, lose some and some get rained out"... but the region still has to pay for sites even when it rains. Thanks for the way ALL have dealt with it... AJ and Michael did all they can to make a great event but the weather is managed at a higher level. Here's to sunny days for the rest of the year's events!  |
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Post by SE3P on Jun 1, 2012 23:26:20 GMT -5
To go off of what Dean said. Here are my thoughts.
Start the event at 9:00 instead of 10.
Limit the event to either 150 or 175 entries. It's great that we had 200 people show up, but it just wasn't possible to get 4 runs in the amount of time we were given.
As far as requiring Tech the night before I disagree with that. This event isn't too far from the Charlotte area and is no problem for an early morning trip. Requiring Tech the night before would cut the number of attendants in half.
We would have enough time to get everyone through Tech by 8:15, seeing as Tech opens now at 6:30.
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Post by yeahdoug on Jun 2, 2012 5:08:36 GMT -5
Points I understand , but I was looking forward to seeing the results. Without the printer and the live timing not working, I really have no idea how I compared to similiar cars... Since the results were a bit of a WASH, all i can say is that your Mustang was similar in size to some other cars. Sorry, just trying to add a little levity to to the situation. james 1st group wasn't a wash. I know I was slow (64.1XX), but there are a couple of guys I try to compare to after the event to see if I'm improving and getting closer to the rest of the class. Seemed like the fast ESP guys were 60-61s but I don't really know. |
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Post by mr2aw16 on Jun 2, 2012 5:21:41 GMT -5
If the results will not be posted, is there someone that wouldn't mind fielding requests for times, or even do a seperate thread for those times, apart from the results/points thread? Just wanted to see the other times in my class. If not, that's fine. A little selfish anyway... I can only imagine the disappointment of not running - the time spent and expense of travel for many... CCR is a hardy bunch with great attitudes ! Concerning CMP as a site - It's kind of like a risk/reward shot in golf - If it turns out well, it's great, but if you miss - it bites you. Thanks for all the hard work & organization...  |
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Post by z3elda on Jun 2, 2012 6:04:28 GMT -5
To go off of what Dean said. Here are my thoughts. Start the event at 9:00 instead of 10. Limit the event to either 150 or 175 entries. It's great that we had 200 people show up, but it just wasn't possible to get 4 runs in the amount of time we were given. As far as requiring Tech the night before I disagree with that. This event isn't too far from the Charlotte area and is no problem for an early morning trip. Requiring Tech the night before would cut the number of attendants in half. We would have enough time to get everyone through Tech by 8:15, seeing as Tech opens now at 6:30. OFFER tech and registration the night before. Any you can get done then will speed up the event morning. The express line didn't seem to happen this time...?? We always do CMP on Memorial day - I know its a piggy back with the Road Racers.. but it seems like weather patterns at this time of year aren't friendly. Maybe we should do CMP later in the season?? |
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