CMP Thoughts

[cr89x]

Someone has made a good point. Against my thoughts, I will post results. Be patient for them though.
Putting a cap on participants may be a good idea. Starting an hour early .... eee. I was very pleased to have the drivers meeting on time. People were still coming to registration late as usual and that annoys me. Too many people try to push things late getting to an event. It makes me wonder if they ever bother walking a course, that explains a lot.
I do agree that for this event, something has got to change. I hated to be the one in the end that said we're done, even tho it wasn't just me in our decision circle.
Dean, I understand memory fades Yes, some of your thoughts are a stretch BUT they can be twisted into something that can work. People say that expenses to participate in this event are high enough, so overnight would turn people away. This year saw a high number of campers which was pleasing. I appreciate your inputs as always.

Ted, your sincerity and kind words are always good to hear. If only weather could be purchased on eBay seen as you can buy anything on eBay.

[05astock]

why does it matter when the drivers meeting is when you dont enforce whether you have to be there or not?

[ball80]

I think its like being the big bad parent, you have to bring out the belt sometimes and show them you mean business. I say have reg close at 820, drivers meeting 830. First car out at 9am. Yes its a bit earlier, but if you want to get runs in and actually finish the event. they will have to get up a bit early.

I was doing waivers, and the majority of people were getting there between 730 and 8 it seemed like.

ps AJ, check on craigs list for the sunny days, im not sure what they are selling for, but it be worth it!

[stealthgtfour]

Jun 2, 2012 12:10:46 GMT -5 05astock said:

why does it matter when the drivers meeting is when you dont enforce whether you have to be there or not?

you are hence fourth nominated as drivers meeting police chief.

as for season points the min events to qualify should be reduced to 5 and the cmp results will be thrown out. not ideal but fair for all.

[integra55]

or CMP counts as an event attended for all those that were there.... whether they ran or not... just no points

[05astock]

I like the new minimum. Ill regulate if Im there, and Id also make sure that the rule applys for allif thats what you want.

Jun 2, 2012 19:02:17 GMT -5 integra55 said:

or CMP counts as an event attended for all those that were there.... whether they ran or not... just no points

I agree, thats what I was meaning.

[ball80]

Just call me Sheriff Mini

[cr89x]

Travis, I think you are confused as to true meaning behind "happy ending"

[ball80]

They always seem so eager to sell the happy ending. I think we should invest in atleast 3 of these so everyone is happy at the end of each event!

[ball80]

I have a silly question. Pro class drivers reguardless of class drive at same time. Same goes for tire class. How come this doesn't apply to novice class? Shouldn't drivers be able to benifit from direct run compitition like other prefix classes?

[lancer360]

If we only had a few novices it would be fine to do it that way. Problem is we often have quite a few novices. Having them all run together is generally not a problem, however having them all work at the same time can cause problems. We could very easily end up with a run group with few experienced workers that it could effect the quality of the event. If Rob's method for doing worker assignments (i.e. sign up instead of by run group) then we could revisit this to eliminate any potential unfair advantage by being in different run groups and having either better or worse track conditions than your competitors.

[ball80]

Chris,

Thanks for being openminded about this. Im glad you see where i am coming from. But i also understand about having a track full of novices working. That would not be good either. But with novices competing for year in championship i noticed at cmp that the course really changed with the day, and some would seriously have a better course to compete on than others.

[lancer360]

No problem. I was a novice too a few years ago. Our novice program has really exploded the past couple of years. We are having a core worker meeting on Tuesday. I will bring this up.

[ball80]

I'm just glad I didn't have to be a novice with you or duck. Be like racing against pro class lol!

[frankenstook]

Here are my suggestions:
first car out at 9am
3 runs if registration is over 175ish
5 run groups if registration is over 200

We have made the '3 run' call at events in the past where we were pushing 200 entries and it's been a lifesaver more than once. If first car was out at 9, with 3 runs, we would have been wrapping up 4th group right about the time the rain came the 2nd time. If it had been sunny, you would have had an hour of fun runs.

I know folks will whine about 3 runs, but you have to build time into the schedule for unknowns. Giving 200 people 4 runs, even on a site that doesn't have a 5pm cutoff doesn't leave any room in the schedule for problems.

[Jay MR]

Wait, here is an idea....... Run Zmax all year long. We have a great site with limitless configurations, It is a convenient location, and the entries are always up there. Honestly if I had anything else to do, I would have never made it to CMP. It was a cool idea on initially, but the track configuration does not bode well for a successful day of autocrossing.

If you're are listening BOD, we want to run Z-Max all year long.

- Jadrice

[czrider]

Jay,

The BOD does not pick the sites. The SOLO drivers do. If the participants can cover the actual expense required to host an event then it is doable. The question is how much are participants willing to pay on a predictable basis so that scheduled lot rentals do not get under subscribed and cause the program to go broke. The cost to run at Zmax is more than we have been collecting from drivers in the past. We were only able to operate that way because of sponsorship that now does not exist. CMP cost per day is more than the SOLO entry fees cover. The BOD is working to keep the program viable and would like to see it evolve into SEDiv's premier SOLO program. A SEDiv divisional should be under consideration for 2013.

Brian Gause

[srduck]

I think I'd go insane from the screeching of tires if we did ZMax all year... though it WOULD help my tire budget, seeing as how I'm pretty sure I left the Evo shootout with more rubber on them than when I came in.

Last year was my first year and the event that REALLY got me excited was CMP. The chance to drive on a "REAL TRACK" was awesome. I did the Memorial Monster and the 2 day Subaru Shootout, and loved it. But, I kinda agree with Jadrice, now. There's not a lot of variety you can do with the track... those straights DO start getting narrow when you throw slaloms on them... and as I understand it is bloody expensive for us to hold an event there. If CMP disappeared from our AutoX schedule, I don't think it would be disastrous. Between ZMax for a big lot, Metrolina for a small lot, and the joint events available with SCR and TSCC at Black Lake or Dixie, we have a good variety in the mix.

If anyone is just dying to set foot on track, the club racing program is always looking for more volunteers. Come down and work flagging, timing, pit, grid, etc with us.... then you get an hour at lunch for touring laps. It's at a safe speed behind a pace car, but still a whole lot of fun. I convinced Josh Elks to come work F&C, and he spent both days at lunch out on track chasing the pace car. I can't speak for him, but I think it's safe to say he had a good time!

[Steve Eckerich]

Everyone needs to know a few facts about the CMP AX. We (CCR) try to use this event as payback to all the AX community that help work the road races through the year. We use revenue from the Memorial Monster to cover the cost of the site so everyone gets to have some fun. AJ and many others spent all weekend working the race. It is a good time for everyone to see what the other venues offer. With a few of the offered structural changes it can be a great event next year.

Zmax every time is an option that will see entry fees go up to cover real cost, but it is up to the AX community to say what you want. I don't mean post you love it, but vote with support of the race. As Brian posted these have had sponsor money in the past but did not cover real cost. Every year we buy a bunch of cones, upkeep on truck and trailer, new license for the latest and greatest AX ware, etc. Money has to come from somewhere and it is either sponsors or entry fees.

Just food for thought.

[Mike Burke]

Hello,


I completely support the aforementioned suggestion to count the canceled CMP event toward the required season award related minimum number of events for each driver who registered to compete and was actually there on Monday, May 28th. That seems to be an appropriate consideration in lieu of points and, or lack of driving time for all the involved competitors' who invested time and out of pocket expenses as well as may potentially have scheduling conflicts with the remaining 2012 CCR events.


Mike Burke
Asheville
828 258-2442

[z3elda]

I, for one, like the variety of sites we still have in CCR. I like going to CMP, Black Lake, ZMAX, Metrolina, Dixie and even Knights. I like ZMAX, but I really don't want to run EVERY event there.

In a recurring subject - we should keep looking at new sites.

[toyzforme]

james[/quote]

1st group wasn't a wash.

I know I was slow (64.1XX), but there are a couple of guys I try to compare to after the event to see if I'm improving and getting closer to the rest of the class. Seemed like the fast ESP guys were 60-61s but I don't really know. [/quote]

Yea I was one of the G37's with a 59.5 time. I wished I knew how everybody else did to see where I fell into the mix LOL

[oldgiracer]

Anyone know who, what, when, etc. about 19 cones that belong to CMP being picked up on Monday? As all should know by now, we only use cones marked: "Tire Rack/SCCA" so if we are picking up cones that are not marked such, we are taking someone else's property. If someone could give us an idea it would be appreciated otherwise the club is on the hook for the cones and CMP's are not as reasonably priced as ours.

[sleeper]

Jun 4, 2012 13:54:35 GMT -5 Mike Burke said:

Hello,


I completely support the aforementioned suggestion to count the canceled CMP event toward the required season award related minimum number of events for each driver who registered to compete and was actually there on Monday, May 28th. That seems to be an appropriate consideration in lieu of points and, or lack of driving time for all the involved competitors' who invested time and out of pocket expenses as well as may potentially have scheduling conflicts with the remaining 2012 CCR events.


Mike Burke
Asheville
828 258-2442

Well written Mike.

I agree 100% with Mike and hope to hear an official CCR response regarding this matter in the near future.

-Steve Shin

[CoolGuy094]

Jun 4, 2012 16:21:21 GMT -5 oldgiracer said:

Anyone know who, what, when, etc. about 19 cones that belong to CMP being picked up on Monday? As all should know by now, we only use cones marked: "Tire Rack/SCCA" so if we are picking up cones that are not marked such, we are taking someone else's property. If someone could give us an idea it would be appreciated otherwise the club is on the hook for the cones and CMP's are not as reasonably priced as ours.

I would have to assume that "all don't know by now" that the unmarked cones weren't ours. When it is pouring down rain and thundering, people just start grabbing and stacking cones to pack up and get to their stuff getting soaked and roll up their windows. I would wager that they are stacked up in the back of the truck.

[Frodo]

One suggestion I have is pushing Annual Tech at events. That way it would make Tech flow through smoother and faster. Now I don't know that Tech was a problem at CMP, but it's the little things we can do that add up. Also enforcing more the registration deadline. I understand that some people may have a hard tome getting to an event due to circumstances that can be out of their control, but there's a reason there is a deadline. The less things that cost more time to prepare the more time we have to work with getting our runs. Paying $40-$50 to do 3 runs at CMP instead of 4 with the likelihood of a fun run hour? I'm OK with that. I'd rather be able to put in 3 runs for points and get all the run groups through instead just two and a half run groups with 4 runs.

zMax is a great venue. It provides ample space and very little obstruction to a wide variety of course designs, a few light poles and that damn drain aside. But the idea of running all events there just is not an appealing one. For one zMax is of our more expensive events to get register for, and understandably so. It's a prime piece of autocross real estate and zMax pays high dollor to keep and maintain it which means it cost more to rent it out. The thought of having to pay nearly $50 for every event because it's at zMax could turn people away. The variety of places we have to use provides different kinds of challenges. Metrolina seems to me to be gritty and have loose particles, probably from StreetWise events, which makes cars more likely to want to slide out a bit. Knights loved to eat tires and the light poles/medians meant tight technical courses were required. I remember an event that was held at City Park and if I remember correctly it had a few bumps in the pavements which also provided another 'environmental' challenge to runs that drivers had to be aware. And staying with just one venue means that some people are required to travel much farther than some for every event. Mixing the location up makes the travel distances sort-of equal for all. And seeing the same drive to an event over and over again can get dull. I personally love the idea of auto-crossing at CMP, it's just unfortunate that their are variables we just can't control. However, there are plenty of ones we can control. Besides it's not an auto-cross unless something hasn't broke in the middle of an event

Jun 4, 2012 11:10:54 GMT -5 srduck said:

If anyone is just dying to set foot on track, the club racing program is always looking for more volunteers. Come down and work flagging, timing, pit, grid, etc with us.... then you get an hour at lunch for touring laps. It's at a safe speed behind a pace car, but still a whole lot of fun. I convinced Josh Elks to come work F&C, and he spent both days at lunch out on track chasing the pace car. I can't speak for him, but I think it's safe to say he had a good time!

Oh it's VERY safe to say haha. I had a blast there. Lunch time rolled around I would scarf down some Subway in about 3.8 seconds and then hop in the Mazda and lap the track. Sometimes chasing the pace car at safe speeds, and sometimes by my lonesome at twee bit faster than safe speeds . Between Saturday and Sunday I got somewhere around 20 laps in. I highly recommend working Club Races to anyone and I've only done it once. And besides...SPEC MIATAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[cr89x]

We should have done 3 runs. We definitely would have gotten at least three groups done if not all. CMP is a nice change in a typical autox venue. There are a lot of people that make CMP autox their only event of the year. It is a nice "pay back" to the club race workers. You watch all the cool cars go around all weekend and then it is so cool to have your turn.

Jay, yes it would be nice to run at zMax all the time. I like variety though, especially because I'm finding that I'm struggling on small tight courses now. We have been spoiled with nice large sites.
T Ball, I know where you are going with your thought of Novices. Yes, this will be revisited. Working has been my concern.
Tony, all track cones I stack and put way off course. It is possible at the clean up crew may have accidentally picked them up. I'll look into that.

Thank you all for posting. There are good things coming out of this thread. I appreciate it.

[Jay MR]

Jun 5, 2012 1:18:28 GMT -5 Frodo said:

The variety of places we have to use provides different kinds of challenges. Metrolina seems to me to be gritty and have loose particles, probably from StreetWise events, which makes cars more likely to want to slide out a bit. Knights loved to eat tires and the light poles/medians meant tight technical courses were required. I remember an event that was held at City Park and if I remember correctly it had a few bumps in the pavements which also provided another 'environmental' challenge to runs that drivers had to be aware. I personally love the idea of auto-crossing at CMP, it's just unfortunate that their are variables we just can't control. However, there are plenty of ones we can control. Besides it's not an auto-cross unless something hasn't broke in the middle of an event

So let me get this straight, running lots that are potentially unsafe, where you can hit a curb, damage your only daily driver, and running lots that loops on themselves to create a 30 second course because they are so small is challenging to drive?

Well, I guess I need to start learning how to drive slow again, and get beat by 2+ seconds at a national event. There is nothing technical about a sh*tty and small lot except for making you drive even more timid on a faster Zmax lot/course.

That said, I will only attend Zmax and Blacklake. Those two sites are huge and they offer a different character in grip level, while maintaining a national level course flow and design.

NO we should not have issues at an autocross for it to be an autocross. I'm not doing this to be stressed out, I'm doing it to escape from stress, therefore I would rather not have any issues at an autocross that would take away from the enjoyment of our great sport.

- Jadrice

[illbebetter]

"That said, I will only attend Zmax and Blacklake. Those two sites are huge and they offer a different character in grip level, while maintaining a national level course flow and design."

Sorry, this reads more like "I will only drive courses that suit my car and I can go fast." Smaller lots do require a different skill set and offer unique challenges. A variety of lot types and sizes tends to even out the aspect of some courses being biased to a particular car type. A good attendance at the smaller sites does help to offset some of the annual club costs since they cost less to rent. This should help to keep entry feed down overall for all events.

[srduck]

Some of us don't do nationals or really even have a desire to do nationals.... so, yes... smaller courses do offer a different challenge and fun. I wouldn't do events as often if they were only at ZMax because, while it is large and flowing, now that the whole place is sealed, the grip SUCKS on street tires and the constant squeal from them makes my ears bleed. Personally I would rather see a season full of Metrolina events with none at ZMax than the other way around.

I'm pretty sure people that drove the March event at Metrolina would disagree about it being a small nutsty lot that forces you to be timid. The course Licursi made was awesome both days and I know Krolewicz wanted to go paint the course before it was taken down because he said we need to run that same course again. It's possible to have a fun course without being on a giant lot.