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Post by z3elda on Dec 21, 2012 20:58:46 GMT -5
The biggest thing I would like to see work on is posting times. I want to know where I stand as it relates to other cars in my class. Not knowing how far ahead or behind I am can be frustrating. Russ We've had live timing on the internet for the last 2 events of the year and will hopefully have it in the forseeable future. Once we can get the TV out of that metal case, we can use it too. Right now, in the case, all the foam padding presses buttons and turns the bloody thing off. I think the box can be modified to eliminate that particular problem, but it's hard to work on when it's locked away in a trailer.  |
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Post by z3elda on Dec 21, 2012 22:22:24 GMT -5
I had a lengthy post almost completed when the browser crashed and I lost it all.. :-(
I'll try to make a shorter one...
1- "Culture of continuous improvement" - we made alot of progress this year. Let's build on it. Fix the stuff that doesn't work. Continue to develop workers and drivers.
2- Traveling Crew - I'd love to see 20+ CCR members caravaning to neighboring clubs events. This is how you get seat time, and how you get used to all levels of competition. We enjoy visitors from all over the southeast - we should return the favor.
3- NCAC - We're the biggest club with the best sites in NC. This years NCAC should raise the bar. The core group has tossed a couple of ideas out privately - what say you?
5- Promotion - You know I'm into this.. This isn't an orginal idea, but I propose a challenge. If every autocrosser took a handful of "Wanna Race" cards and handed them out (tag cars at the mall, or at your work) we could at the minimum raise some awareness. Mark down the Dates for Autofair and the monthly cars and coffee in your area.. GO out and tell the SCCA story.
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Post by soloracer on Dec 21, 2012 23:27:08 GMT -5
I like Erics' comments.
5: promotion. Any time you go to a bookstore, slip "wanna race " cards in copys of "Grassroots" and Road & Track magazines.
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Post by russ33 on Dec 21, 2012 23:42:42 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm a ludite at an autocross. I can't pull up the internet. Long ago, we would have somebody write the times on a large board and you would know instantly where you stood.
Russ.
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Post by soloracer on Dec 21, 2012 23:46:21 GMT -5
Am really torn on the idea of classing cars by prep level. Could be a great idea. When i started autocrossing there were far fewer classes. Now we are swamped with classes. OK old fogey idea, i liked 4 "divisions" stock ,street prep ,prep, and mod. Then , and i see the logic, SCCA , added ricer classes. Street this and that (mostly for cosmetic) classes in an attempt to assimilate the fast & fuzzy group. Epic FAIL. Those folks do not understand rules or respect . But with so many choices offered, many competitors prepared to those new classes. With small adjustments and logic the club could return to the basic "divisions."
On the other hand i do not like bumping. Bumping is what parked my MG many years ago. Some years we had strong prep cars in E/p . other years ,not so much. If E/P was bumped into D/P there was no way to compete.
Rant over.
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Post by Frodo on Dec 22, 2012 4:16:43 GMT -5
Then , and i see the logic, SCCA , added ricer classes. Street this and that (mostly for cosmetic) classes in an attempt to assimilate the fast & fuzzy group. Epic FAIL. Those folks do not understand rules or respect . I run ST and I understand rules and respect. It's on Mr. Farris. It. Is. On. |
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Post by W. Dean Furr on Dec 22, 2012 8:33:21 GMT -5
Josh: James was writing about the F&F who don't understand rules and respect, not about ST.
His point is that we have created class-after-class in an attempt to increase membership, and have diluted the competition in that process. When James and I started, there were 18 classes total: A-G Stock, A-E Prep, A-E Mod, and L. There were few empty classes. Now, there are over 70 classes (33 open, 33 Ladies, a few Karts, Street Tire, Pro…). In some classes, we have several regular competitors who routinely swap the lead during the event. But I also see many cases where there is only one car per class. The core of Mike’s proposal is sound: Let’s group classes to make a win more worthwhile. I would rather lose in a class with good completion than to win in a class with no competition. (That’s one reason Jon and I moved to XP.)
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Post by drum3 on Dec 22, 2012 8:40:36 GMT -5
Just a note on Pax , there are a lot of info that goes into calculating that index and it is very fair if used in the same condition , on the same course with cars of similar prep . When pax hurts one car or the other is when used on the same course but under different conditions ( morning cold runs vs afternoon warm runs) or when the cars are of vastly different prep levels ( ST Civic vs a SSP Corvette , its very easy for the course or weather to favor one tire type or car type) .....When all the cars in a Paxed class run at the same time , with similar prep levels (all stock , all sp , etc) ,,Pax is very fair . The Pro Class and Novice may see some slight favoritism toward certain cars/classes depending on course or weather but the Pro's are fine with that and the Novice class usually has little to do with what class the winner was in .
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Post by integra55 on Dec 22, 2012 9:09:52 GMT -5
I can only speak for myself ... as far as the individual events go .. I couldn't care less how you divide it up .... but for the end of yr championship, my vote is to continue the SCCA way of each class winner
if I wanted to run nothing but indexed classes I'd make the effort to run Pro Solo and Evo Shootouts ... I don't and I probably won't
I'm in complete agreement with SteveCouture, and Russ here .... not interested in running indexed classes
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Post by z3elda on Dec 22, 2012 13:54:23 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm a ludite at an autocross. I can't pull up the internet. Long ago, we would have somebody write the times on a large board and you would know instantly where you stood. Russ. In modern times, the Large board is a flat screen TV... We'll get that working. Somday jumbo-trons will be cheap-then you won't have to scroll to your class too. |
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Post by soloracer on Dec 22, 2012 15:46:18 GMT -5
Then , and i see the logic, SCCA , added ricer classes. Street this and that (mostly for cosmetic) classes in an attempt to assimilate the fast & fuzzy group. Epic FAIL. Those folks do not understand rules or respect . I run ST and I understand rules and respect. It's on Mr. Farris. It. Is. On. Was not aimed at you, Hobbits have earned great respect. Aimed at street racers with no regard. Still. it. IS on> |
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Post by tsivart on Dec 22, 2012 15:52:42 GMT -5
You know Amy and I will do whatever you guys need. No problem!
Also I just want to say that I know it doesnt really concern me but I think that Mike Pax Idea would be an awesome idea I think it would really help to push everyone to become better drivers.
I also respect the fact that he is trying to think outside the box to strengthen out club. Thanks Mike!
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Post by stealthgtfour on Dec 22, 2012 17:32:21 GMT -5
i think its a cool idea. trophies will go much deeper at the events so people
will still be getting a tangible reward for their efforts. but dividing work/run groups
may be an issue. for instance if theres too many st cars to be contained in one group
and there are changing conditions it may skew results. or at least put more strain on workers
due to dissproportionatly large or small groups. is there data from last year that may be
used to see if this might happen?
im cool either way. i see where all sides are at on it and dont think itd kill the club or anything.
its great if you want competition. if you intentionally dont prep your car to the fullest extent
of the GCR then you are out for fun and friends anyway so the piddly event trophy isnt really
a concern for you.
i think a hybrid would be the best. normal classes for the season and pax for the events.
i believe this is fairly easy and could satisfy both camps. if there were a sub-set of class
championships for the pax classes it would only be a few more season trophies. which would
be offset by fewer event trophies used.
im for whatever is good for the club.
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Post by cr89x on Dec 22, 2012 18:34:21 GMT -5
Marske, you are right about event pecking order. It has crossed my mind.
You bring up an added interesting insight with the hybrid season trophy thought, that may be a tangible option if individual class championships stay.
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Post by integra55 on Dec 22, 2012 19:03:33 GMT -5
AFAIC Mark's idea ( sorta what I mentioned way up the page ) is something I'd be ok with
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Post by integra55 on Dec 22, 2012 19:10:29 GMT -5
Sorry, I'm a ludite at an autocross. I can't pull up the internet. Long ago, we would have somebody write the times on a large board and you would know instantly where you stood. Russ. while I'm not a TOTAL luddite as far as phones go ... (those of you that remember the earlier thread about ... go ahead and have your laugh ;D ) ... my phone isn't a smart phone ... though it's not totally dumb... when I've tried to download live scoring and timing ( at another region ) I was able to bring it up ... but ran into the problem where my phone informed me that I didn't have enough memory to do what I was trying to do ( yeah ya-ll can laugh all you want to about this old farts lack of memory ;D ) since it's all the phone I can imagine ever having ... the internet live scoring ( not on site tv) wouldn't be something I'd like to have to depend on |
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Post by cr89x on Dec 23, 2012 10:15:03 GMT -5
Walter, you are too funny. I agree though. This is why we have been working hard to have multiple sources for results. As many have seen, we continue to have failures with one or all of the ways. We have been working hard on it though. 2013 should be better in that aspect. Duckles has made great strides on getting our live timing via Internet going and we think we have the new tv problems figured out.
Definitely something that will be worked on. Thank you all.
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Post by russ33 on Dec 23, 2012 11:43:08 GMT -5
And whats wrong with low tech? The LEAD 2.0 word processer is still a great tool.
Russ
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Post by integra55 on Dec 23, 2012 14:47:49 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by stealthgtfour on Dec 23, 2012 18:53:29 GMT -5
And whats wrong with low tech? The LEAD 2.0 word processer is still a great tool. Russ uh wtf is that  |
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Post by russ33 on Dec 23, 2012 20:56:37 GMT -5
Should I tell him?
Russ
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Post by integra55 on Dec 23, 2012 21:11:14 GMT -5
let him wonder for a while
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Post by srduck on Dec 23, 2012 21:15:04 GMT -5
LEAD 2.0 suffered from planned obsolescence, though. They knew you were going to have to replace it, and they made a killing on that fact. |
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Post by Frodo on Dec 23, 2012 23:32:13 GMT -5
I know what you meant James. It's all in good fun. SRZ BZNS isn't our mottoa |
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Post by ball80 on Dec 24, 2012 7:41:46 GMT -5
I had a lengthy post almost completed when the browser crashed and I lost it all.. :-( I'll try to make a shorter one... 1- "Culture of continuous improvement" - we made alot of progress this year. Let's build on it. Fix the stuff that doesn't work. Continue to develop workers and drivers. 2- Traveling Crew - I'd love to see 20+ CCR members caravaning to neighboring clubs events. This is how you get seat time, and how you get used to all levels of competition. We enjoy visitors from all over the southeast - we should return the favor. 3- NCAC - We're the biggest club with the best sites in NC. This years NCAC should raise the bar. The core group has tossed a couple of ideas out privately - what say you? 5- Promotion - You know I'm into this.. This isn't an orginal idea, but I propose a challenge. If every autocrosser took a handful of "Wanna Race" cards and handed them out (tag cars at the mall, or at your work) we could at the minimum raise some awareness. Mark down the Dates for Autofair and the monthly cars and coffee in your area.. GO out and tell the SCCA story. I agree with you on getting the cards out. I can say I have given 4 or 5 out at red lights after playing on hwy with other cards. But the problem with giving people cards is that it directs them to a website that is out of date. I wish we could revamp it so people didn't have to dig into forums to get info they need. Design it in a way that is going be good for members and want to make potential members want to get in on all the excitement. Just my 2 cents.. As far as classing. I'm fine with the way things are. A lot of time people's cars. Are In the classes they choose. They can always prep it to go higher or stay stock. They want competition go to higher level. I think instead we make a middle class. We have a novice pax and a pro pax Lets make amateur pax class. |
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Post by z3elda on Dec 24, 2012 11:06:51 GMT -5
.........But the problem with giving people cards is that it directs them to a website that is out of date. I wish we could revamp it so people didn't have to dig into forums to get info they need. Design it in a way that is going be good for members and want to make potential members want to get in on all the excitement. Website redesign is definitely needed. It's been discussed. We have volunteers to do that redesign that as well as redesigning this forum. Hoping it can be done this year. |
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Post by yellow CR on Dec 26, 2012 18:58:04 GMT -5
Yes PAX is based on cars that are well prepared.
But if you have 2 cars competing in the same open class, "Car A" is almost stock having an insignificant mod, bumping it up to a street prepared / mod class, which happens all the time. And "Car B" is almost 100% prepped. We don't have a PAX issue, since the 2 cars are in the same open class, but is it fair?
Without a PAX system in place, we already have an issue with the competitive balance. So it really doesn't matter. You are not going to have good competition in open classes unless all the cars have a similar prep level. Car A will never be competitive, not with the 9 class system and not with the present open class system. But we can get "Car B" some competition with "Car C" - a near 100% prepped car in a different class.
And as for the trophy hunters who only autocrosses to win their class, and get a trophy. Who are they? Where are they? Because I have never met or talked to anybody who came to an autocross for just a trophy? I keep hearing about these people, but have never met one, much like “The Bigfoot”.
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Post by drum3 on Dec 26, 2012 20:45:23 GMT -5
^^deja vu   |
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Post by yellow CR on Dec 27, 2012 14:47:34 GMT -5
^^deja vu LOL, not everyone here is on your forum. |
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Post by drum3 on Dec 27, 2012 20:47:02 GMT -5
^^deja vu LOL, not everyone here is on your forum. THEY SHOULD BE !!!! thats www.auto-x.com |
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