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Post by Frodo on Apr 7, 2013 21:48:07 GMT -5
^ Agreed. Why should you be able to PAX an already PAX'd class. If you're choosing to run a class with a car that isn't fully prepared for that class then you shouldn't receive a handicap for that. By that rationale I should receive a suspension PAX because my current shocks and springs aren't up to STF limits yet. PAX my already soft PAX please...
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Post by integra55 on Apr 8, 2013 6:16:38 GMT -5
keep in mind that National HQ has authorized a PAX on PAX when they came up with the RT class ( used only for Stock class, not for prepped classes)
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Post by rcogburn on Apr 8, 2013 8:34:11 GMT -5
How Many PAX factors are enough ? Dang it if you need that many additional helps........maybe just maybe your in the wrong class !
I thought the Intermediate Class along with the PRO Class was an excellent idea to allow different class cars to compete aginst each other and have some fun in the process. But now that we have turned it into a " MATH " exersise with (PAX x PAX)- (PAX to the 2nd) = "I'm still not fast enough so give me another pax" I'm starting to think whats the point !
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Post by srduck on Apr 8, 2013 8:57:17 GMT -5
How Many PAX factors are enough ? Dang it if you need that many additional helps........maybe just maybe your in the wrong class ! I thought the Intermediate Class along with the PRO Class was an excellent idea to allow different class cars to compete aginst each other and have some fun in the process. But now that we have turned it into a " MATH " exersise with (PAX x PAX)- (PAX to the 2nd) = "I'm still not fast enough so give me another pax" I'm starting to think whats the point ! It's always a math exercise though... whether it's PAX or PAX^3 or cos(PAX). It is and always has been a statistical formula so we're playing a math game regardless. I'll set up AXware however it's decided we should do it... but I know no matter what we do there's going to be complaints from one faction or the other. Just a word to the wise for anyone that wants to gripe at me from either side about it at an event.... DON'T  I've had enough SCCA related complaints lately and I'd kinda like to get back to it being fun again  |
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Post by jprice130 on Apr 8, 2013 8:57:24 GMT -5
How Many PAX factors are enough ? Dang it if you need that many additional helps........maybe just maybe your in the wrong class ! I thought the Intermediate Class along with the PRO Class was an excellent idea to allow different class cars to compete aginst each other and have some fun in the process. But now that we have turned it into a " MATH " exersise with (PAX x PAX)- (PAX to the 2nd) = "I'm still not fast enough so give me another pax" I'm starting to think whats the point ! I'm with you Randy. PAX on top off PAX just seems silly. If you want to run street tires on a stock/street prepared/modified/prepared car, then run the Tire class. If you want to run Pro, Intermediate, or Novice, just take the PAX your base class is given without the additional RT multiplier. And this is coming from someone that would greatly benefit from this RT multiplier when we have to run street tires on the Lotus for rainy days. |
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Post by rcogburn on Apr 8, 2013 9:31:49 GMT -5
Steven I don't have any compliants or grips with you or any of our event people ! I was just making a comment about the previous post and being somewhat a smart a$$ ref. folks trying to complicate what seemed like a pretty simple idea when it wasa put in place.
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Post by flier129 on Apr 8, 2013 10:34:47 GMT -5
At first glance I was thinking "WOW, butt-pucker x10 at the finish beside the fence!!!!" Then I realized the finish is way before that, lol.
Looks like a fun course and I'm looking forward to it, see everyone Sunday!
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rapidbutterfly
Junior Member
una donna che conosce il suo posto
Posts: 94 
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Post by rapidbutterfly on Apr 8, 2013 10:40:57 GMT -5
Let me just say, Steven, thank you for all that you do. That goes for your better 3/4 as well (thanks Cyndi.) I see you two out at event after event, even non CCR events, and I just wanted to say thanks.
This is not to exclude anyone else - I think CCR runs great events, it's one reason why I keep driving all this distance to run with you folks. :-)
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Post by stealthgtfour on Apr 8, 2013 11:10:30 GMT -5
keep in mind that National HQ has authorized a PAX on PAX when they came up with the RT class ( used only for Stock class, not for prepped classes) also stupid. guess thats why its going away |
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Post by integra55 on Apr 8, 2013 11:20:11 GMT -5
How Many PAX factors are enough ? Dang it if you need that many additional helps........maybe just maybe your in the wrong class ! I thought the Intermediate Class along with the PRO Class was an excellent idea to allow different class cars to compete aginst each other and have some fun in the process. But now that we have turned it into a " MATH " exersise with (PAX x PAX)- (PAX to the 2nd) = "I'm still not fast enough so give me another pax" I'm starting to think whats the point ! It's always a math exercise though... whether it's PAX or PAX^3 or cos(PAX). It is and always has been a statistical formula so we're playing a math game regardless. I'll set up AXware however it's decided we should do it... but I know no matter what we do there's going to be complaints from one faction or the other. Just a word to the wise for anyone that wants to gripe at me from either side about it at an event.... DON'T I've had enough SCCA related complaints lately and I'd kinda like to get back to it being fun again Stephen, how 'bout this ... if ( IF ) we add any PAX multiplier it only be the RT ... if other classes want to run street tires then they should run in the street tire class ... that way they're running against other cars at the same "disadvantage" as they are ... if they want to run in the I or P class then prep the car for the class .. if that means R-comps then either run R-comps or suffer the consequences ( i.e. lack of traction compared to others running the same base class) yada yada yada .... it is what it is all that said, I guess I should post the disclaimer that I don't have a dog in this fight ... a: I run in open class and b: I run on street tires that are already PAX'ed for what they are |
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Post by integra55 on Apr 8, 2013 11:24:31 GMT -5
keep in mind that National HQ has authorized a PAX on PAX when they came up with the RT class ( used only for Stock class, not for prepped classes) also stupid. guess thats why its going away maybe ... probably ... but for sure not to the degree of the proposal ... there is way to much yapping and letter writing going on to pass as written .. so for this yr at national events ( and at the nationals themselves) there will be a RT class |
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Post by mr2aw16 on Apr 8, 2013 11:39:40 GMT -5
Thanks for the map, Torque Monster ! Nice course, as usual. Look forward to Saturday !!
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Post by srduck on Apr 8, 2013 12:41:30 GMT -5
all that said, I guess I should post the disclaimer that I don't have a dog in this fight ... a: I run in open class and b: I run on street tires that are already PAX'ed for what they are I DO have a dog in the fight, and I don't really care either way. Been on the receiving end of too much bickering and complaining about many things for the past month or so. I want to drive and if I lose I can just say I needed to be faster. Enough bench racing... let's race race The original argument was brought up by Casino that they be allowed to run the tire modifier for rain events since ST cars have a huge advantage there with R-comp cars not having that PAX modifier. I THINK (though I don't remember since more than 3 hours have passed since then) that I had the conversation with Licursi and AJ that if you're in a car eligible for Tire class and you're running it there in the dry... then run it in Tire and not RT Intermediate/Pro. Now let's hug it out and race, dang it! Tire PAX or no, I need to keep my streak from Michelin going!  |
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Post by rocket71 on Apr 8, 2013 15:21:56 GMT -5
That course looks like a ton of fun. I will be there!
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Post by cr89x on Apr 8, 2013 15:27:53 GMT -5
Let me just say, Steven, thank you for all that you do. That goes for your better 3/4 as well (thanks Cyndi.) I see you two out at event after event, even non CCR events, and I just wanted to say thanks. This is not to exclude anyone else - I think CCR runs great events, it's one reason why I keep driving all this distance to run with you folks. :-) Mina LOL better 3/4! Well put! You have no idea how much the Duckles mean to this sport in the Carolinas. I am SO thankful to have them! Great people! Duckles, great play on math equations! |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 8, 2013 15:35:31 GMT -5
Berry, it'll be great to see you!! As usual!
Yes the additional pax may seem dumb, confusing, and what not. We are still discussing this in depth. If you look at the latest fast track proposals, it's a good thing for some to practice for next season. Pax factors will be a cluster for the next couple seasons trying to figure out tires and junk.
As I've said before. This does benefit those who want to better themselves and get into better competition. Chris Ross may or may not run on Hoosiers but he more than likely wont go back to Tire class. He is enjoying Intermediate. Jason Rooks wants to go back to street tires and fix bad Hoosier driving habits, yet at the same time he wants to be in intermediate. Maybe I want to convert one of my Miatas to stock but I sure as heck ain't buying Hoosiers for it. I'm committed to staying in pro class. RT pax inside of a pax class makes things better in those instances for all competitors. Licursi, Duckles, and myself have spent over a season developing the RT pax factor. It is solid and slightly on the tough side for the street tire competitors. There is no real advantage.
We never discussed this with Novice. Hmmm. No thoughts needed there. It's Novice class, sorry guys, and most people in it are NOT going to be on Hoosiers.
I defintiely appreciate all feedback and input on the matter. I'm a firm believe for this as with many crazy ideas we come up with. Please please please feel free to come talk to me in person about the matter as well. A group discussion in person would be even better. I want to do is right and fair enough. Everyone knows I am very open to suggestions.
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Post by stealthgtfour on Apr 8, 2013 16:08:07 GMT -5
intermediate fine. pro not so much. my .02
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Post by ball80 on Apr 8, 2013 16:23:05 GMT -5
intermediate fine. pro not so much. my .02 If you want to run street tires in a non ST class. Then run tire class. If you want to run with the big boys. Then prep you car to the max. If you don't. Don't beg for additional pax. It seems like every month we are trying to redesign the wheel. I'm just tired of something new trying to be changed each month. If you make changed they need to be done prior to the season starting. That's like the Yankees being up by 5 runs in the top of the 5th and the Indians saying hey, you are playing too good. No shortstop for you anymore. |
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Post by drum3 on Apr 8, 2013 19:09:31 GMT -5
Pro = Fast drivers in close to Nationally Prepped Cars on National level tires
Intermediate = Drivers almost fast enough for Pro in almost Nationally prepped cars on National Level Tires
Tire = Fast Drivers in cars in varying level of prep on Street Tires
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Post by idrive2 on Apr 8, 2013 19:39:32 GMT -5
The original argument was brought up by Casino that they be allowed to run the tire modifier for rain events since ST cars have a huge advantage there with R-comp cars not having that PAX modifier. 1. There is your problem right there...just ignore Casino. ;D R-comp guys still have the option for rain tires, built into the whole concept, if they chose not to use them, or field the expense for them (we don't, we're broke), doesn't mean the system isn't already providing for them in these conditional/rain events already. Right? 2. Does the PAX on top of PAX not make trophies/season points even more difficult & time consuming than they all ready are? Why create even more work for yourself when it is ultimately up to a competitor to evaluate the class that they chose to run in, so that they pick a class they are comfortable with running in? Disclaimer: haven't paid much attention to anything this year, think the intermediate class is a cool idea, I still haven't been able to put together a full season to be anywhere close to contention for a class trophy, and I work in timing and have a slight idea of how much a pain in the neck all the PAX stuff can be if something goes wrong. That being said....does anyone have anything cool I could co-drive on Saturday? Justin has to work so there is no Protege. Thanks! |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 9, 2013 5:38:03 GMT -5
I drive who are you?! High five for your first sentence That was my response a few weeks ago. |
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Post by srduck on Apr 9, 2013 6:27:15 GMT -5
How many females are there in our sport that know to say "ignore Casino" and would comment that Justin can't bring the Protege? The first half, there are a lot.... the second half.. I can think of only one |
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Post by drum3 on Apr 9, 2013 9:16:45 GMT -5
Nikki, if Biscuit is ready you are welcome to codrive. She will be on well worn tires and not the most competitive but she will still be a blast to drive!
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Post by PinkBimmer on Apr 9, 2013 9:29:33 GMT -5
Let me just say, Steven, thank you for all that you do. That goes for your better 3/4 as well (thanks Cyndi.) I see you two out at event after event, even non CCR events, and I just wanted to say thanks. This is not to exclude anyone else - I think CCR runs great events, it's one reason why I keep driving all this distance to run with you folks. :-) Thanks for noticing not only the hard work that Steven and I put into our events and other events.... Its a team effort for sure.... the whole CCR Solo Core Team is wonderful at putting on such great events, I couldn't imagine working with a better group of people.... They are the reason I keep coming back, they accepted this 3/4 with open arms... We have all become one big dysfunctional family that's for sure. Between auto cross and working road races, and the Subaru event I currently have 7 weekends in a row, but wouldn't change it for anything. |
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Post by idrive2 on Apr 9, 2013 11:42:05 GMT -5
Hahaha, whoops... I used to have a signature, apparently I don't anymore. Maybe I'll fix that when I'm not on my phone, but yes, it's Nikki. Anthony, thank you for the offer, but Kraig is going to let me drive with him. |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 9, 2013 15:31:44 GMT -5
For once Duckles I didn't see boobs clearly written to the left. I had a feeling it was Nikki though.
Revenge has open seats in open and ladies classes still. Kraigs car is a beast! You'll enjoy it!
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Post by idrive2 on Apr 9, 2013 16:24:47 GMT -5
I do enjoy Kraig's car, drove it at Danville. I need to make my car like his, I was not expecting that on my first run. It was pretty awesome. |
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Post by z3elda on Apr 9, 2013 19:33:33 GMT -5
SO since the thread was hijacked with all this RT B-S... I thought I'd pull us back on track.
REGISTER FOR THE FREAKIN EVENT ALREADY!! The Weekend is almost here!
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Post by idrive2 on Apr 9, 2013 19:44:59 GMT -5
Being on topic is no fun! |
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Post by cr89x on Apr 9, 2013 20:14:34 GMT -5
Numbers are below average right now. Interesting.
Nearly a quarter of the entries are Pro class. Wow!
It'll be interesting to watch Revenge go around course seemingly all day long non stop. I have three confirmed drivers, one most likely, and possibly two more pending. I'm glad it's zMax and tires don't wear ;p Calculating fuel is going to suck lol
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I've had enough SCCA related complaints lately and I'd kinda like to get back to it being fun again 
